The Harvest
The Harvest

Episode · 2 years ago

Ep.029 - The Actor/Character Relationship Explored Through Text & Subtext


We have spent three episodes digging into the actions, the behavior, the preparations; even THE MIND of an actor. And if you haven’t listened to those, you MUST check them out. This past week we had a chance to speak to Bobby Bishop and it was a treat just hearing his input regarding the long-term psychological effects of being a METHOD ACTOR.

This week, we are going to talk about actors, but not in the way you may think.

We’ve been talking a lot about some of the more practical and pragmatic factors involved in the ACTOR to CHARACTER relationship. Things like prep, professionalism, passion, techniques, line memorization, blocking, etc. But today, we’re going to weave into our discussion how the script informs the actor in ways beyond the LOGOS words on the page.

Every person within the filmmaking machine has a unique relationship to the script. But none is like the Actor’s relationship to the Characters presented on the written page. An actor is immersed in a study of character-specific circumstances, conflicts, motivations and objects of desire; as well as the BECOMING notion. A notion where an ACTOR must embody and represent - something, someone, an idea that serves a very specific purpose: THE TELLING OF A STORY. This is a VERY unique relationship, unlike any other.

Hey, all right, I'm great. How are you good? All right, fantastic. Well, everyone, hello and welcome to the hardest where we discuss everything cinema and story and as we learn, you learned, as we grow, you grow. My Name is Xavier Garcia and dropping Garcia and you are in episode number twenty nine. We spent about three episodes now just digging into the actions, the behavior, the preparations, even the mind. Yeah, yeah, of the actor. Three episodes, twenty six, twenty seven and twenty eight. They had a good lot of that. I expected, but I mean, I think is sevens a lots heavy. It is. It is a deep subject, so deep that we even got into talking about the method and the psychological effects of the method this past episode when we interviewed psychologist Bobby Bishop. That was a lot of fun. Yeah, he's an awesome guy. I learned a lot in that interviews. Great. So this week we are going to talk about actors, but not in the way that you might think. We've been talking a lot about some of the more practical and pragmatic factors involved in the actor to character relationship. You know, things like prep, being a professional, empathy, you know, techniques, line memorization, all those really practical things, blocking, etc. But today we're going to weave into our discussion how the script itself informs the actor in ways beyond just the logos word on the page. Every person, everyone within the filmmaking machine, has a unique relationship to the script. Right, directors relationship to the script is going to look a little different than the DP's relationship to the script. Everybody looks at it through their own purview, their own perspective, because everybody's got a job to do, right, and you're here to go mine. When they're both in sank, that's that's when beauty happens in filmmaking. Yeah, but there isn't a relationship to the script like the relationship that the actor has to that screenplay. It's very unique and actors immersed in the study of character, specific circumstances, conflicts, motivations and objects of desire, right, as well as the that that becoming notion. They have to become that character, they have to embody, they have to represent something, someone and idea that serves a very specific purpose, and that's the telling of a story. This is a very unique relationship, unlike any other. Yeah, is it not? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely so. The actor character relationship, it's a tricky one. It really is a tricky one. So much goes into the embodiment of a character, in the presentation of Real, Authentic Personas on screen that oftentimes directors agree, majority of erect directors will agree that in when making a movie, casting is the single most important milestone in the filmmaking process. Casting. Yeah, Martin Scorsese famously says. I don't know if you if you checked up the the master classes. Yes, did you check? On My scor says he's watched a few of is. I've jumped around. There's so many good ones, so many good directors there, and I did watch his opening. He's so chill. He's sitting at a theater, he's just kind of talking and he says something that a lot of actors agree upon. You know, he says directing his ninety percent casting, and that notion is supported by people like Robert Altman. You know, you got John Ford, Elliot, Kazan, countless others. His exact quote? I'm going to look at my my notes. His exact quote says I always say that casting is eighty five to ninety percent of the picture for me. So all you, just all of you just starting out, insist on what you want and don't settle for close enough or second best. And so he's you know, he's talking to the importance of the right actor for the right role and casting the right actor for the right rule is essentially like the movie is done right. Yeah, I mean to him, ninety percent, that's that's a lar yeah, that's a that's huge. That's hays a lot about how he feels how important the actor is to the telling of the story. Now, the reason here is that very few actors are just right for the very specific character that you've created. It's not like you create a character and anyone can play it right. If a character is well written, well thought out, well planned out, you know there's a strong arc to the character. You can see the change. The conflicts that are antagonizing this character are formidable and the character is then therefore create like hew, he has to make choices and these choices are revealing of character. If that's how well thought out...

...this is, then not just any actor is going to do that character justice right, and there's a lot that goes into the casting process. When a director is looking at this. The character. The director is looking at this actor, you know, who's doing there their real or the or they're looking at a real or they're looking at an audition tape or alive audition, and they're discerning is this guy or girl the right person for this job? One are the types of things that they're looking for. I mean they're they're looking for sensibility right, right there. A lot of times they look for it just looks. Yeah, just looksperence is, you know that plays the role. Yeah, I mean it's the choosing of a role. I mean there has to be hundreds of questions. Need to be honest things. Yeah, and for a lot of times sometimes people choose roles based on, you know, like a recent film that they did, you know, and then they're banking off of, you know, the hype on the previous, previous work. But there's so much that goes on to casting. Yeah, and then and movies fail and succeed in in that, in that area. Right, absolutely. And then when the director is making this choice, you know, beyond just looks, sensibilities, I mean they're they're also trying to understand is this this this actor, really understand the story? Does he? Does he empathize with the character? Right? Does he relate and with the character in a way where it's genuine and believable? And then there's also that gut feeling. Right, you just know of the person that you're seeing is the right person and right and you can't you can't put words to that. You just have like this, I don't know, like a gut feeling right. Yeah, I mean I think about when mel called Jim Caviezel and like what what out of all the actors in Hollywood, like, Oh, for passion, of the kind of passion like he felt like that's the guy who I want as Jesus, and to play Jesus and a movie is a serious thing. It's like, you know, you've never seen a movie like it, and the hundreds of Jesus play two movies. But like he knew that he would nail that role because he had that feeling inside. So yeah, sometimes it comes like that. I really wonder what that conversation was like. I know he did say. It's well documented that he says, you're going to do this, it's going to be awesome, but you're never going to work in Hollywood again. Yeah, Hey, he I mean, yeah, and I mean to a certain degree, Jim Caviezel has has had to like work overtime and work extra hard in order to kind of step out from the shadow of Jesus. How do you step out from the shadow of Jesus? Right, it's like something that you want to do spiritually, but anyway. Aha. So, having said that, though, that that casting process is super important and when you fail, when that casting process crumbles and you fail, you get movies like the amazing spider man and you get Jamie Fox as electro. Yeah, and he's like Damie Fox as a lot of you get a lot of I mean that's so many movies. Give me another example. What like where where there's a failed casting process, where like the cat were just like, Oh man, they really fund but a lot of comic book movies ton I have there's a list of them. Like I know we talked about daredevil. Ben Affleck all was, you know, actually both of them were badly casted. Yeah, not just him, but what's her name, Garner, she was a she would she ended up becoming electra right in it, like she's Jennifer get shoot that both of them cast in that film. We're a bad cast that's time. that. That's why, I know, like you tend to wonder, was it bad cast? Was it just a bad script? I could right, that's it. Well, that's that movie should not have been made. Why do you know? Like, you know, like it's like as a good a lot of times, good directors, good DP's, can notice these things when they're watching a movie. They're like, Oh, oh, that's a script problem versus a actor's problem. You know so. But yeah, there's a lot of them. Star Wars. Who at WHO in Star Wars? Careful, I know, I know. I know so too. It days the bears is existed. Yeah, I mean it just destroyed, destroyed the love for you know, that role, that character. Yeah, jared Letto, and as the joker. It's like how do you come off of seeing Heath Ledger as a joker to then him trying to reinvent the character as a sociopath? I just didn't work. Jared Letto just didn't work as the joker and and he felt as though it did. I think he was like really passionate about the amount of work that he put into that character that he felt like slighted when he wasn't really invited back to the role, which is interesting. Right. Yeah, it is. In I think while back we're going to watch this movie and I just think of that one scene with Mark Wahlberg in the happenings. He's cut, is in the classroom. So we talked about bees. Bees, is anybody knows what happened... the bees? I know I love mark, I love I mean he's he's a great easies, home grown, he's from Boston. I mean he has his movies. But that's the thing. Yeah, you know, a good it wasn't as fault. It's a casting such as SASS. Yeah, yes, that was a castle problem. I'm good because I thought it was brilliant and departed. Yes, that's brilliant part. Oh Gosh, right, yeah, I mean, yeah, it has but wonder, was he just being marker here? But yeah, and he was phenomenal and it was great. It was phenomenal. And then you've got some really tragic sin there situations that have come about as a result of bad casting. I think that any director or any cinephile, anyone that you asked that knows movies, when they're talking about this topic of bad casting, the number one, the one at the top for everybody on everybody's list is John Wayne in the conquer one thousand nine hundred and fifty six the conqueror. He played the role of Ginger Khan, and so many things, so many terrible things, happened as a result, like of this movie. Like they filmed right next to like a nuclear reactor, I think it was, or they some some place that was essentially emitting radioactive, you know, like waste, and ninety people from that cast and crew died as a result of cancer that they got from having worked so close to that plant, that facility, including John Wayne. John Wayne, that movie, the conqueror is caught, is quoted as the film that killed John Wayne, because he ended up getting cancer and dying. Now, that's not the reason why it was it was a bad casting. It's not like, Oh, you know, we lost John Wayne, because losing anyone it's is, it is tragic. But when you watch that movie, after the second scene he completely give is up the whole notion of trying to be gen just kind of trying to be this like Mongolian ruler, and he literally just reverts back to being old western John Wayne, and you're like when do we win? Was Ded jen just con a gun wielding Western, you know, like it's actually pretty bad. And he and he, he says it that that was one of his biggest regrets for a role that he took, because he was completely unprepared for it was a bad casting. I think at the time people were like, John Wayne is gold right, would have been anything right, and you're going to make money and and and and that's one of the reasons why, when you choose a bad actor, that's usually like on the top of the problems where, because right there are so there. So why's a bad casting situation? Yet it's because it's a great actor and you think money, money, money, money, money. He just did muster, he just did fast and furious. Let's use him for the pacifier of in diesel. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean like, you know, right's hot right now, like, no, you know what, you know who happened hot right yea, so hot right now. You know who that happens to a lot? Will Smith. Yeah, will Smith had the reputation of being like what he had a nickname, the fourth of July Blockbuster Will Smith. Like any movie in the summer that you put will Smith on is going to be big time money that was his reputation. And then, you know, like this wasn't in meet like Gemini Man. I'm talking about like this was recent. There were a couple of flops in between now and then. Like I'm not even going to talk about the movie that he did with his son. I. I've I've literally blocked even the title from my memory. Yeah, what is it? When he's like the last man, him and his son, not the last man on earth? That that one was actually pretty good. When him and his son are on an uninhabitable planet, I don't even know. But anyway, that's been blocked, like I have you trying to bring it back, but no, what's not? But in Gemini Man, Gemini man had its writing flaws. Jemini man had plot flaws. I'M NOT gonna I'm not going to sugarcoat that. It was rough. Was Right, I think. I think the the allure and the attraction to Gemini Man was like filmed at a hundred and twenty frames per second. It's new technology. You know the CGI is going to be amazing and they were trying to make and it's will Smith. So they tried to put all that together and make it the summer blockbuster but just, but it's wasn't cast right. The script had problems and you've got, unfortunately, what you got right. And and there's one other one. Out of all the rocky movies, which one's the one that stands out for just being terrible? Rocky Five. Yeah, Rocky Five. Why? With his name? Machine guns? Yes, yes, so you know more Tommy the machine gun, gun, Tommy the machine gun. Yeah. And and that's another situation where here's this upandcoming boxer, Tom Morrison, I think, is his name. He's an upandcoming heavyweight. He ended up, he ended up beating Oh gosh, he he went twelve round or Motetoe with George Foreman. ended up beating them like so he would. Here's this upandcoming boxer, you know, larger than life,... and he's gonna, he's bankable, he's making a ton of money, you know, in the ring, and let's cast him in the rocky movie. And you got the disaster road of movie. Kind of just wanted him around, kind of around him, and when you do that, that's that's that leads for a disaster. It's it was, it was sad, it was, and you know I mean, and not to mention just kind of like the story, his own story and his own life story was really sad. It's like a twenty year old that's you know, all of a sudden, like night and day, he's given fame and fortune and money and he just can't handle it and ends up, you know, dying as a result of HIV and all that. You know. But like, there there's another situation where, you know, Hollywood's eyes grew larger than their stomach's, right, and they didn't necessarily look to the OAR, to the story, to the implications even of casting this young boy, like none of that. They didn't look. They look past all of that. They were looking at the money and they were like, let's put him in and you know it, it's so much does out of s was like that. S was yeah, right, S and S S. It was like this. You know, blockbuster just diet the actor because his name is big. You know, happens a lot. Yeah, yeah, happens a lot. Now I have a question for you, because we've answered a ton of the questions that we had written down in our notes. You know, like is this a lot of these failures? Are they bad casting or is it bad writing? You know, like we we sometimes it's a mixture both. Oftentimes it's bad casting. If you would ask Scorsese, he would say ninety percent of the time it's bad casting, you know, like but sometimes, excuse me, sometimes it's bad writing. However, can a great actor salvage bad writing? Yes, always, are not always. What would you say? Yes, always, a great actor can salvage bad writing. Or not always. Those are my only two. Yeah, I mean, because I don't know that it's necessarily I would actually know. Yes, always, really, yes, here a great actor. Yeah, a great act. I think that's a great actor. Gosh, here's why I believe. Yes, always, because, well, not that, because remember, you only gave me two options. Yeah, always, right. Well, I mean, okay, you, you go ahead. You give me the option that you must say. I would possibly, I would say I would say so if the actor is given the freedom to fully express the role, then yes. So what I mean by this is if the role is rich, so like could be if yours the script, if it's feel right. Right, I'm the director. This is also I wrote this movie, you know, like you have to stick to it. That's kind of his way stick to it. He's got crew that have like you know, the Spielberg's crew is. That's they have that one job. They have to get it done and there that's it. There's no like, you know, like let's take a day to like shoot a new angle. And that's what I've been hearing. Right, if the actors given the freedom to kind of like express himself, kind of like how we spoke earlier about Leonardo in once upon a time in Hollywood and hot right, yeah, where he was discuss same thing with Heath Ledger. Yeah, we're actually whether they had an idea. Let me play with this. Give me the camera, let me take the scene. The script is completely he has to follow along the script as long as he can bring his but that's on stired, that's quittin Tarantino writing. So, like the script was probably already right now. Intend. I'm just saying if it's a bad script, Uh Huh, and the actor a really now, this is let's say. I'm trying to say. I'm trying to think of to two movies or a movie where it's a bad script. All right, so I think Gemini man was a bad script. Okay, would it be a w there's a good actor, though. So did I Smith Elevator Bask great actor. I think it's a good actor. Okay, here's a great actor. Will Smith pursued a happiness. Come on, I was a great role to be. He know, you're right. Right role to be. You're right. That was the marriage of a light ractor. Right role to be, right actor, the right room. Right, all right, I'll give you that. So Daniel de Lewis and Gemini Man, what do you have done it in his prime? I'd have to can't see now because he's older, because he wouldn't be casted now. But him as an actor, I can't even see that. The Lewis and Gemini Man, I I don't know. It wouldn't be, he wouldn't even have taken it, though. That's the point, that's wouldn't take it. That's hard. It's and if I'm saying it's hard, to say yes, I wouldn't say yes, something more, leaning more towards yes, only because I feel as though if the actor can express himself and be able to add to the role. Okay, all right. So here's what I'll agree and I'll disagree. I think an actor can help a bad script, but if a bad script is bad and a great actor can't save it.

Say That again. Okay, so the audience can hear. So I think a great actor can help a bad script, but a great actor can't say like a dead script, like sure, yeah, okay, I see what you say. Doesn't matter. It's kind of like can't say a movie. Basically. Yeah, like, basically, like if the script is crap, no matter how much like like Po Poi, you try to spray on it, it's not gonna like, it's not going to change. It to the loops. Goes like he's Lion Alex. I'm sorry, here's my name. You could spray all the Daniel de Lewis you want on a pile of Dung and it's still going to be a pile of Dung. Yeah, but, okay, I understand what you're saying. I don't think I think you're right in the fact that the film probably will not be salvaged, but I'll tell you, they will always remember how that person took that role, took that Rokay. Fine, and the movie wouldn't wouldn't be, as you know, you know, as much of a failure as you expect. Can you think of this is off that like we didn't have any notes of this. So I'm just going to ask you off the top. Can you think of all bad film where there was one actor that had a phenomenal performance and you only remember at that actor, but you're like, but the but the film is garbage. Gosh, I mean, we didn't. I didn't. I know, I know, we didn't prep this. Okay, you think back to it. Let's come back to all right, I think that's a great question. Okay, if the audience has something, put it on the comments below. Yeah, and and I love to discuss. Yeah, I'd love to hear if you can think of a bad movie, yeah, where everyone was garbage, but then there's this one actor who's just like, but he was awesome, he's memorable, or she was awesome, she's memorable. And I and and you remember the film for that person's role, but you're like, but I would never watch it again, or for that person's character, but you never watch it again. Great, see, here's my analogy. I feel like some of the Star Wars Films Fall into that category. Yeah, probably a ball. Here's my analogy. So you said putting, putting Spring Pooper on poop. I see it like this. I kind of see an actor being a very like beautiful person. Right, okay, and the role is like dressing up that beautiful person like a bump, like just ugly, absolutely, like like dressing them up terrible. There are some individuals that like they still look good, still look good, even if you like make them super ugly dressed up. You know what I mean? No, you can make someone. I mean we talking like prosthetics and stuff. Is like you could write it about far as good gone and stuff. All right, let's move forward. Let's move forward, because all day, yeah, we could be talking about this all day now. The flip side of that is, can brilliant, phenomenal, award winning screenwriting overcome bad casting and bad casting choices concretes screen writing. So you've got a bad actor or just a after that doesn't belong in that film, doesn't belong in that role, but it's a brilliant screenplay, it's a brilliant film. This is stuff, because this is actually this one's even harder than the last one, because I think the steam play to have a successful screen well, it could be a successful movie, it could be a movie and then you're like, but that actor inside of it, like, man, they were bad, but the movie was still successful. I think that can be posibly was successful, like it did well on the box office. blots are successful, really lended well. I enjoyed it, I think. You know, like critically acclaimed. Oh so, so it does well with critics, it does well with the academy, whatever that means. You know, it's just it's rated well, it's reviewed well and it's also box office well. Can Great can you? Can bad casting choices be averted, or rather, can attract? Can tragedy be averted if it's a great screenplay? I would say yes. My my thought on that is that if it's a great screenplay, Ph nominal screenplay and obviously, okay, so there's you have to just have a good director the role. Yeah, you have all good director. So, for instance, I think it depends on like if it's a lead if it's a lead role and the lead role player person is terrible actor, I mean, yeah, I think the movie is going to fall apart. Okay, because they drive an example. I've got an example. Hans brought this up earlier, the new Mad Max fury road. Then you know Mad Max Fury Road, brilliant screenplay, brilliant directing. Charlie thron did a fantastic job in it, but Tom Hardy just didn't bring to the Mad Max character what what Mel Gibson brought. It...

...just it felt flat. So he's that just wasn't an awesome cast ting choice. He was Tom he was like looked down at the ground, Tom Hardy. You know the thing about it? Actually, I was just reading up on this and doing a study. So, as much as I agree a lot of times with Hans which Han or dirry Credo or disagree with on is a very good film critic, there's that website, the screen screenwriting website. It's pink and bling up off the top of my head. Pink. Yeah, it's a they helped the screen program I'll think off the top of my head when I get but they talked about Tom Hardy in that role and they said that in that film specifically they wanted to make sure that the dialog was almost not there. It was show, don't don't tell type film. That was what the director intended for the movie. Okay, to show don't tell. And so ninety percent of Tom Hardy's lines are Oh, oh, are grunts, you know what I mean. And so it's like which is which? Is Right, which is difficult because when lines are the life to the character, they they they allow you to we're going to get there. I'm glad to bring in. They allow you too. So you show range to the individual or to the role. Yeah, they are fine characters. Yes, there I mean you can have the subtleties and the movements and the actions that you know show, wow, he's a great actor, but you know, when lines are put in, there's range now to the character. Yeah, there's death, you know. Yeah, so, and so I think for Tom Hardy it was hard for that role to be bigger than what it what it what it could have been. You know what I mean? Because at the end of that it's about the world, it's about the environment, it's about what's going on, you know, and and the story. I mean they capture you know. Yeah, but, Jonathan, you say that right. But here's I'm going to give you another example. Benicio Del Toro. Yeah, in CICARIO, okay, Roger Deakins famously talks about the fact that he was literally writing out lines, he was taking lines out of his dialog because he's like, I know in needs to say that I just acted right and and you were watching similar type of situation where removing lines because it could be acted, and Benicio was brilliant. It's a card, and that's true. Yeah, and then it was like he should past for that role perfectly. It couldn't have been anybody else except for Beniciodatar. Yeah, the interrogation scene. Yeah, exactly. It couldn't have been anybody else whereas with bad Max, I think someone else in that position, even though the director was trying to minimize the lines and they have it be more about the visual story that's told. I just think it was a brilliant screenplay where a casting Faux Pa. But we're talking about bring down the whole movie, so we're so we're talking about can a great screenplay and screenwriting overcome a bad casting choice? And I say, and what I'm saying, is that I think almost always great screenplays can overcome bad casting choices, if it's like one or two, not if like the entire movie is just the disaster of casting. Yeah, like if they're just putting a bunch of like, you know, lizards and and and and monkeys like to like that, you know that's not gonna fly. I mean it it's it's a heart it's a hard question, I think. Again, this is another one. Great for the audiost to throw them in. The notes are out. You know, a great screenplay, a great film, but it was poorly casted. Now there are those films, and we've brought some up, where the actor in characters a match made in heaven, you know, like you've get, you get those. Those are those are rare, those are like those are diamonds in the rough. They are like you don't find those all the time. You know. Sometimes, now, this happens, sometimes because the screenwriter is writing specifically with that actor in mind. Yeah, and then they go after that actor, you know, so like he's already written the nuances of though that actor and everything, and so like when that happens, okay, but that's easy, you know, like that's that's not what we're talking about. We're not necessarily talking about those times. We're talking about the Times where the writer just writes a character, not necessarily with that actor in mind, and they're just focus more so in creating a character and then the casting director sees this and reads it and they're like this is the person. We're going to go after, this person in this this this this actor and it's a match made in heaven and you're just like this, like this is unbelievable. No one else could have pulled off this role. Can you give me some examples of films where you're like nobody else? Yeah, we discussed this one off camera. We talked about Robert Downey JR and as iron man, a that's like almost everyone, everyone knows. You know why? That's the top of yeah, because he...

...gave life to this multi billion, yeah, billion dollar franchise. Yeah, right, if it hadn't have been, because because, let's be honest, marvel movies had been done before Robert Downey Jr is iron man, you know, like you have had you like Xmen came out before that, you know, like you had other attempts at Superhero movies. But when the right person filled the right role, it gave life to an entire universe and Robert Downey JR literally built what today sits as the most lucrative financial movie movies and most series of movies of all time. Yeah, I mean they all of those movies that like, I mean the endgame, like all those, you know, avengers movies. They've all broken box office records. Now let's break down the list. All right, we gotta you know which one I this. This one always gets me the I have a there's a special place in my heart for for this movie, the Green Mile. You remember the Green Mile, Tom Hanks do Michael Lark Duncan as the angel essentially in the Green Mile, this giant of a man, but this gentle giant where says he's like John Coffey's like glass just inside my mind, I mean like those lines, like ah man in him just no one else could have pulled the role that he pulled as this you know, in during this time of intense racism, you know in southern United States, in the small prison where this man is condemned to death and he's the scapegoat, you know too, and being wrongfully accused. But he comes in as like an angel, almost in a condemn space. He's a big, big guy. I mean I could think of somebody who I can think of that was bigger, though. I know, oh my gosh, it's just just give me, give me some movies that this whittaker, forest whitaker, I can see him maybe doing. Maybe I'll maybe give you four swittaker. He's got this like like yeah, I feel like you need to be like bigger, like it's his first whitaker's face. It's like I can't help but feel bad for we're not gonna go there. But like he's got the son. You mean there are characters that like you can't see anyone outside of that role. Michael Clark, Duncan Man, that's gotta be one. What do you guys? Keithan Roger Joker? Yeah, he's everyone. No one's I mean, you know, Juaquin Phoenix. To me personally, I feel like that's just a different, awesome joker. Yeah, that's different. They mean it's like a dad, it's something awesome. Yeah, and and that was that was cool for me. No, but like the joker as like the joker versus Batman. Right, definitely, he he fleder. Definitely, he killed him. That's Oh okay, since we're doing superhero movies. So this one is actually really funny because there's two in one. So deadpool, the character of Deadpool by Ryan Reynolds. He Ryan Reynolds got the opportunity to play deadpool twice right in in wolverines origin. He was the Deadpool, remember, with the mouth that was closed and he had the swords and and he hated that deadpool. He was like that was an atrocity. And then he the reinvention of Deadpool, the new deadpool, the rated are deadpool. You know, Ryan Reynolds is known for being smart mouth, you know, like being this like witty, quick, you know, talk, and that's what deadpool is. And the marriage between this deadpool comic book character and Ryan Reynolds, done the right way, made deadpool to the point where he goes back, doesn't he go back and he kills. He kills the old deadpool. Oh No, kills the old death. Yeah, it kills. He goes back in like the deleted scenes. That it, because he makes fun of that that role that was that old deadpool was terribly cast. Yeah, you think about it. You covered the mouth Ral Ryan Reynolds developed it. Just did write. You never by Ryan Reynolds. And Ryan Reynolds is the guy with the mouth, like that's what he's known for, or a guy with the mouth, but then they gave him a guy with a covered mouth, like you don't cast the guy with the mouth to be the guy that doesn't speak, like that's such a bad casting choice. And Yeah, or or script really too, because, oh yeah, that's good. The freedom. Yeah, so it's cript. It's quite a few things. But that brings up another character, because that that that old deadpool came from. Wolverine Origins. Wolverine, Hugh Jackman. Who Do you see? Is Wolverine? Yeah, who's gonna take over the franchises? Wolverine. Hugh Jackman is Wolverine. I'm sorry, who else is Wolverine? Yeah, no one, no one right now. I mean he's solidified himself as the Wolverine after Logan. After he did Logan. After he did Logan, people were like, we need we they wanted more wolverine. Yeah, I know, I have one that my wife likes for yet legally blond. Yeah, I can't. I mean I could. Brilliant screenplay, brilliant script, brilliant script. Yeah, she definitely se she can't see really anyone playing that role... that that that was her role. I was watching the office the other day and it was the episode when Michael Scott comes in and Pam is like I could always tell what kind of movie my one movie Michael's caught a scene based on the way he's acting. Who's doing the the devilwares product? Oh yeah, yeah, and when I thought about that. Yeah, right, right, what I thought about that I thought, that's right, no one Meryl Street. No one else now could have been Miranda recently. No one else but Meryl Street. That's a brilliantly casted one. was well done. Well, who else you got? Gosh, I mean there's a bunch. You could just throw them in there here all day. And you mentioned actually when we were back there talking the role that Monique had in and precious and how that's awesome. Is What's awesome. It's something to me, man. You know, when a character, when an actor is in the right roll, things come out that the director probably would have never known, which gives that person be like I can't see anyone else and I'm so thankful that you have this role, you know. Yeah, so that's yeah, that movie, that movie like shook me and the role that monique put into that. I mean she was like no one else could have done what she did. I I don't think any any honorable mentions. Honorable Mentions? I don't know. I so Uma Thurman as the bride, you know, like I in Quentin Tarantino's kilbill. Yeah, you know, like you always think of like that yellow Bruce Lee suit, like you and Uma Thurman just comes to mind. You can't think of anyone else. Like she was made for that Sigoni Weaver in aliens. Yeah, like, who else would have played that person? Speaking of like those types of franchises, what's the name of the actress that did Sarah Connor for Terminator? What's her name? Mom, M Linda, Linda Hamilton, Lenna Hamilton, Sarah Connor? Sarah Connor is Linda Hamilton? Is Sarah Connor, so much so that when they were finally going back to doing the most recent one, they had to like bring her out of retirement because nobody else could be an art connor Arnold and Arnold as the terminator. Yep, honorable mentions. You know which one is a fun one. Holds a special place in my heart. Michael J foxs Marty mcfrien, doc and and nobody can do one point twenty one did. Know what's the same way that Christopher Lloyd did it. Those two like they were. They were made for those parts and like and when you think about them as actors, you think about just those roles because, like, what else? What other role do you can you think of Christopher Lloydon, except for Doc Brown, Yeah, or even Michael J Fox. I mean, like, you don't even think about his TV. You don't think about him as Teen Wolf, don't think about any of that. You think about him as Marty mcfly. Yeah, yeah, and the enchantment under the sea. And Oh, you mentioned one, Gene Wilder, yes, in winy Wonka, and that's actually a really good example of many who have tried and had failed. Yes, yes, that, you know, that has been remade to the detriment of cinema. You know, and I look, I'm a fan of Johnny Depp, but it was johnny up right that did the new one. And I'm a fan of Johnny depps quirkiness, especially when he works with WHO's the the want, the one famous director that he always works with where he did Edward scissor hands with and all of the yeah, yeah, and then, yes, the movies. Yeah, he like, he works, he's worked with yeah, he's done all those. But anyway, Tim Burton, Timber Tim Burton, yeah, like Johnny Depp, Tim Burton has a way of bringing out of Johnny Depp, like the weirdness of Johnny Depp, and it, you know, and he does phenomenal and certain roles, but then there's other roles, like you see him as the lone ranger, you know, you see him in the lontary time. Yeah, yeah, so, anyway, and my last honorable mention, if we want to go back to the Westerns, you've got Clint Easwood, John Wayne like they define westerns. I can't see anyone else any western. Oh and I have a film, I have one movie where every single actor, everyone was perfectly cast. Everyone. Can you think of it? where? Is there any movie where you're like, there was no error anywhere? Lord of the Rings, every single actor in that movie. Is that? Like? Is that character? Yeah, all of them. Or Lando Bloom like like yeah, Elijah, with all of them all. Yeah, that's true because, like think about it, you think about all of them and all of their careers and you always default back... Lord of the Rings. Now sometimes you have to ask yourself, is that because the movie was so larger than life and it transcended everyone's career, or is it because they were so perfectly cast for it? Or do they work together? I think, I think the reason why the film was so transcendent and so big and so large is because it was such excellent casting. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think that's it. I think that the casting, they did a very good job in that film. All Right, let's move forwards. We could be talking about movies all the other way. We can get but you could think of like Sean Aston, you like. You know, I would have never picked him for that role, but it was perfect. It was perfect form. Yeah, would have never picked him for that role. That's why it's food. Yeah, it's it's him, it's him, it's him. Okay. Now, it's not always possible to get that kind of a marriage between actor and character. That does, it doesn't always work out that brilliantly. When it does, you get the classics. But when it but, but when it when it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily mean that the the film is doomed because there's I feel like there's a there's there's the perfect actor for that perfect role, and then there's kind of like a realm of other actors that can potentially also do it, but there's always one that stands out. Right. Now, you don't always you can't always get the standout one. Like, for example, you you you're going to write a movie. You know we're writing a movie, working on a movie, and we've got our list of actors that we want right as we're working on, you know, wave in the water. We've got our list for our protagonists and who, like you, want so and so. There's a Mylliad of reasons why we may not be able to get so on so, money, contractual issues, scheduling, crew choices. I mean there's a there's a ton of reasons why, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the other pool, you know, they you can't find another person that is going to be maybe not the perfect, not the ten, but like the eight or the nine. Right, you can. Now, I want you to think about eight and nine in and nine and films. Now, when these PAS one want me to put yeah, well, yeah, exactly. Say, don't, don't compromise. Don't compromise now, when these situations come up and the film is decently cast with an eight or nine, right, that's a good that's actually pretty good cast. May Not be the ten, but it's a good cast. There are certain queues, certain clues. They're like gems and pieces of information that the actor can pick up from the writing in the script in order to become the character, in order to deliver a genuine performance. The reason why it's an Aida, it's a nine is because that actor is both well trained to be able to pick those things up, but there's something personal about them that connects them to that right, to that character. Now these cues, these clues, these gems, these little things that are put into your the screenplay that an actor can can find and can look for and study. In Robert McKee's book dialog, he wrote it in two thousand and sixteen, he identifies three elements of what character says and does that are foundational to the expression of thought, desire and feeling, while shaping the expressions in gesture and in words. Right, so mckey breaks it down into the said, the unset and the unsalele right, and I haven't a direct quote from the book. He says and page forty six he says the innermost sphere churns with the unsayable, the middle sphere restrains the unsaid, the outer sphere releases the said. As so the innermostphear churns with the unsayable, the middle sphere restrains the UNSAID and the outer sphere releases that which is set. So the set right, the said, is the surface layer of things that are set it the logos, yeah, the word on the paper, done. Yeah, right, characters, dialog but that could be broken down into connotations and denotations. Right. So denotations are what's primary. It's what's explicit, it's the meaning of what's being said. Right. So if if the word snake, well, what is a snake? A snake is a reptile with no legs. That's the denotation. But in American culture, when you call someone a snake, what's the meaning behind that? Right, what is that like? When they're like Scheva? There is the evil sneak O, sneaky, they got bad intentions, a con man, you know.

Or here's another one. That that's and that's the connotation, the connotation. When you call someone a snake, there's a meaning behind it. You're not just calling him a reptile with no legs. You call him something underneath. Or here's a here's another one, here's one that's common today, like we used to say it in football. Right. Well, first I'll give you the the denotation. A house. What's a house? Building that people live, structure that you live in. Right, yeah, it's got a front doors, the back door. You know, you got bedrooms, kitchen, blah, blah blah. That's a house. But if I if you were on the football field right and you just ran through the lineback and I will call you, he's a house. What am I saying is he's big man, he's he's a beast, he's huge, like or he's protective, you know, like you can't get through him. You know, because there's a level. You know like that, that that and that's the connotation behind and is a ton of words right like that, you know you've got the denotation and you've got the connotation. And so when sometimes there's a lot more to the word that's being used then just what you're reading right. So like if if the dialog says that Guy's a snake, you know, you know that there's more than than just the word that's on the page. There are. There's cultural influences, you know, there's their pop cultural influences, there's I mean there's a ton infused into the writing that the cat, the actor, has to read, discern, understand. They pick up on those cues in order to build character, in order to build character like, for example, let's go back to the devil wears product. Emily Blunt plays a character of Emily Charlton in the devil wears product and in that movie she's as a line. She says I am just one stomach flew away from my goal weight. That's her line. I'm just one stomach flu, one stomach flew away from my goal weight. Now, on the surface level, you read that and you're like, what is she actually saying? She's giving this line and she's talking to the the the intern, the girl that just started her job. I'm forgetting the actress's name, the one the it will come to me eventually, but anyway, there they're having a dialog back and forth there and their end s Hatha, yes, yes, and she says I'm just one stomach flew away from my ideal goal, my goal weight. Now there's a ton that's laced into that line. There's a ton of it. There's I mean there are specific votecab choices, vocabulary choices that were made. There's diction choices, there's going to be syntax choices, there's grammar choices on, there's accent choices. I mean there are cultural influences that are baked into the line. In and of itself. All of it is telling of characteristics and this jigsaw. When you put this together and you sow this together, you start to build personality, you start to build character. Right now, when you've built this personality and the marriage between actor and character is finally solidified, some of the most amazing moments in film occur moments of improvisation. Now, these aren't really improvisations right, it's not really improvisations. Really, what it is it's just it's the character that's exploding through the page right and coming alive right before your very eyes, right before the Lens, because what's happened is that the actor has studied and they've brought the meaning out of what's on that page in such a way they have now such a manipulation, they have an ability with the character to to to understand what the character is saying, the cultural influences and how to say it. That improv happens. It's and it isn't because it's it's Improv it's because it's just the character coming alive right. And we've got some famous, famous, famous examples of that like, for example, we were just talking about the Quintin Tarantino, seeing where Leonardo DiCaprio. And once upon a time in Hollywood, Leonard DiCaprio is like he the script has been written you, and you know how Quintin Tarantino is about his scripts. He's like every word, yeah, every word is gold, gold every you know, like this is my word and it's gold. And so Leonard DiCaprio had an idea for an extension to a scene to show like his struggles with himself as a failed actor, with and his struggles as an alcoholic. And in that scene he takes it, he know, and he approaches Tarantino with this idea like I want to do this in tarent he was like no, absolutely not. DiCaprio does it, Tarantino sees it. The entire thing was Improv Leo was just going nuts, just going wild, like no, I do too much, and he's like he's throwing glasses, he's throwing the...

...flask, he's going crazy, he's making fun of himself. He's like from the Bubola and you know, and it was just Leonardo DiCaprio improvising. But when you watch that scene you're like that's Andy Dalton, just like having a crisis. It wasn't Leo, it was Andy Dalton having a crisis, literally confronting himself in the Mirror, threatening himself that he's going to kill himself if he doesn't get it together and quit drinking. And it was, it was brilliant. And it was because it was like it was perfectly cast, because they're there's that prop, that's that issue, like it was cast well with Leo, and then Leo took the said and how it was said, he broke it down, he understood the character and he delivered something that was above and beyond what was on the page. Yeah, and that happens a lot in cinema. Yeah, I mean I think, like I was saying earlier, I mean sometimes when these when they're given the ability to express himself and to take a role, and here's a scenario where is brilliant writing, brilliant actor, that person taking it to the next level. It creates moments that will be remembered forever, forever, forever. Robert Deniro and taxi driver. Yeah, you talking to me, you know, he's got the gun and he starts to lie like that whole that whole Improv that that was him. Now, granted, scoresse encourages this with his actor yeah, but it's one thing encouraging in it and it's another thing like pulling it off, you know, and then it appearing in the final film, you know, and that was something that is now one of the most famous lines. We put that in a spoof. You Remember? We put that in a in a spoof to feel as frank, isn't that what it was like? A plea skit reads, a little old skit way back. We put that either you talking to me. We also did the clint eastward, you know, like there are lines that are moments of improvisation, like, you know, Joe Peshi, you know, and good fellows. Yeah, funny, yeah, funny. How you know, like you got that money? Yeah, that's a funny you know, like you got that mold. That was Improv and it was just Joe Peshi again, another squissese moment where Joe Peshi is just the character that he has created is breaking through the page and it's screaming to come out in ways that wasn't written. Any other examples you got? I mean you find it a lot in comedy. To you. Yeah, you see them breakthrough comics barrels. Think a lot of times it's just, you know, bring your green hat, you know, drinking. It's just, I mean, but that's what makes moments so memorable, because when you have fully figured out who you are as this role, you can, you could you mean you can bring in things that are just that are great performances. Yeah, talk about the office, the Steve Krell and the forty year old version when he's getting waxed in his chest. Oh, yeah, he's just he's just kind of upson has why, you know? But that's because, I mean, that's his world, right, you know? Right, he was saying. The things that he was yelling out were things pertinent and related, in the heat of the moment, to that forty year old version character. Yeah, I mean you think of so many things. What is he watch? Like, you know, American idol by himself at home and he's so happy for Kelly Clarkson winning. But like here's a moment where he's in pain but he's thinking of his happy place. Yeah, like they're says to it. Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so that's the said now, mckey says. Then there's the next level, the second sphere that's inside the character, and that's the unset right, I'm going to reference some of my notes. Now. This comes from the inside and it's the character from the inside looking out into the world, right. So this is like the thoughts and the feelings that are formed in this level, in this sphere, there's about thoughts and feelings, right. So these thoughts and these feelings are what's beneath what's actually said, and these are thoughts and feelings that are be that are held back. They don't come out as words, they stay as thoughts and feelings, but they influence the word right. So it's like the motivation beneath what's being said, that's the feeling that's beat, that's hidden underneath. So He's speaking words, but the audience is looking past those words in the text and they're looking past the dialog. But what the actor and the characters truly say? What does this truly mean? What hasn't been said? What's the subtext? That's ultimately what the UNSEID is. And so, for example, a character gives a line, they give a role, but the implication behind..., the feelings that are motivating that which is actually coming out, is truly what what makes the character because you know, talk is cheap, right. They say talk is cheap. You know, like talk, talk, talk, but like behind and beneath the talk there are motivations, there are desires, there are feelings. Mckey has this famous scene, this famous example, and he says, if you've got two characters, like you and I were sitting here right, let's say, let's say your female character and and I'm a male character, and were and we're at a restaurant and there's, you know, billowing, flowing curtains behind us and it's candle lit and this beautiful music and I say I love you and you say I love you too. If we actually mean that, that scenes unactable. That's dead. That means that's absolutely that's dead, like what more than going anywhere out of there? That's it. That's it's dead. That's it. That's the end of the movie. We said what we meant and where else is it going to go from there? That's why, then, the unset is what is the true feeling under and beneath that? Because if he's saying I love you, but the really it's because he the the motivation, the feeling behind it. What's UNSEID is I'm trying to manipulate you, because I'm trying to avoid a fight or something like that. Now he's not going to say I love you, he's going to say it in a different way, because what's underneath that motivation is different. It's not I love you and I mean it, I love you, know, it's like I love you and I'm trying to control you with this word. Sure, yeah, you know I'm saying. That's that's the unsaid, and so good. I love you. Love you, Bro and so when Emily Blunt's character, we're talking about Emily blonds character in the devil where his product, when she says I'm just one stomach flew away from my goal weight, what she's essentially saying, but not actually saying, is like this is the fashion world, okay, and what you look like, yeah, is more important than what you feel like and your health. So you better forget about your health, you better forget about your what you know, how you feel, if you're gonna make it in the fashion industry. And so that's why she says I am, I'm I'm one stomach flu away from my ideal weight. Like, think about that, like stomach flu, like my health means nothing. I will go through pain, I will go through physical ad me in order to look the part for this industry. And that is the unsaid beneath those lines as she's delivering them to, you know, her co Star across from her, Anne Hathaway, and that's the unset can I mean like and that that carries a lot of power in the acting. Can you think about examples for yourself and some of your lines in the past where there was a motivation and you could be like bro The wryting was terrible. There was no UNSEID Beneven. That's there. What I said a short film. That's why sinksture films. You know. I mean, are any example? Any example? Yeah, I mean, I all right now. I can't think off the top of my head, but I know about that. You know a lot of films and you'll find it a lot of, fortunately, faith based films. They you know, they don't get to that under that that unset part, because they feel as though that the audience isn't as smart really to figure out you know is is that that the writer isn't a smart to put it into the it could be. It could be. I mean, I'm not saying that my answer is right. I'm just saying that. In a sense it's they're not crediting, they're not getting given them the ability to be like, I can figure this out, you don't have to tell it to me, right, you know, you don't have to just get it all out. They're chipening the experience and sometimes you say, you know, to fix that problem, all you got to do is a show, you know, don't tell. But no, sometimes it's just the UNSAID. Is what you need to do, so that you know you're not just giving it to the audience, but you're you are doing the work to be like what is he follow that? Could he be saying this? you're just going to start writing random dialog that has nothing to do with anything and call it brilliant because here's this guy rambling and this is brilliant. No, the reason why he's talking is because there's a motivator. Yeah, there's a feeling underneath that. There's a desire underneath that, there's a want underneath that. And the lines, although are coming out on the surface level as the logos, the written letter, right, there's something snake is coming out. He's not calling him a reptile. He hates him and he's calling him a vile snake. Yeah, right, that guy on the other end isn't receiving that as why are you calling me a Reptilian? Right, he you...

...know, he's responding to the feelings that are underneath. Now, that's a bad examples. Just you sure, sorry, but you got what I mean. Any you know, like someone saying, what are you doing? You know, and and and if you really want to know, right, what are you doing? Then they're gonna say they're going to turn and say, I'm mowing my lawn and they're the scene is done, right. But if you're saying what are you doing, and all of the you're not just asking them, what are you actually doing, like, are you straight? Right, what are you doing? And then all of a sudden a fighting sues. Yeah, you like you know. You didn't have to say anything else, you know, to you didn't have to answer, he didn't have to give information. It's just, you know, you start to realize, wow, clearly there's this disagreement. He's unhappy with the fact that you're doing what you know, I mean. So there's so much that doesn't need to be said, but is said but a lot is said in the unst and and unfortunately a lot of the unsaid gets put at the surface, as the said, and then that's just on the nose dialog. That's just on the nose, unactable dialog. Yeah, that's unfortunate. And as writers we have to understand that our characters are have to you have to make them multidimensional, complex beings that speak like we speak with desires and intentions, but we never actually speak what we mean. Nothing ever comes out of our mouths the way that we're truly feeling it in our hearts. Ever, that's why there's the nuances and idio secrecies of relationship, you know. That's why relationship is a process, you know, like it's takes work, you know, I think. I think anyone that says what they actually believe is probably a sociopath. You know, it's like, I mean a lot of guys are like that. I mean, if you really think about a lot of guys even that, yes, more soulent. Yeah, like, I know, I know me and my wife's relationship. I know that. Can you just not say what you're saying, you know, because I don't want to know all the truth, but I mean, no, I don't want to be like so gentle and like kind. Can you just tell me the truth. You know what I mean because you just get it out, because you know like and it's but but, like you know, sometimes it's better to write a film, like like my wife, because it's you know, you have you can guide someone somewhere, but you don't give everything to them where they could do the work. But, and I get you and I understand, and that's the quintessential difference between man, you know, male and female. And absolutely yes. But but even when a man speaks, you know like yes, sure, the you and I as an example, like when we speak, I'm sure that, like what we're saying is what we're meaning. But there's always just such so much subcontext. Sure, there's so much, there's so much feeling behind it. There are past experiences, there are memories, there's there's other motivators, there's things that are like that are and never comes out right right, you know, like a never, especially in an argument, right, especially in a heated moment. Nothing ever comes out right. And you're trying to say it and your talk, you know, like and that's just I'm sure that we're talking right now we're thinking that we sound so eloquent and nothing is coming out right. Now things coming out right and the viewers at home are sitting there scratching their heads and saying, what am I listening to? All right. So, having said that, the said in the unset and then there's the unsayable. Now, out of the unsaid is where the unsayable comes right. The unstable is the deepest sphere of character and when you get to this level of writing, now you're like wielding tools of a master. And in the unsayable there's that which is concealed beneath the UNSEID. And in order to understand this, it's die alog takes the root of action and when it does, it is now that which is unsayable. So all dialog, you have to understand, all dialog, is action. Anytime a character is talking, any time that they are good, good dialog, anyway, good dialog. When a character is talking, they're talking because there's a goal behind it. The reason why they even open their mouths or act, have action or have words is because they're trying to achieve something. Therefore, by virtue of speaking, the word choice and that which comes out are actions. That are being undertaken in a character to character relationship. So like, for example, if I were to say I'm going to have a line, any line, I don't know, like I'll say go to your room. I'll say go to your room. Now there's a lot behind the reason why I said that. The unsayable. So the set is go to your room. So you're gonna listen to that and you're going to either if you're if you're a child, either go to your room or you're going to, you know, hold firm and argue back. It depends. You know, if your five year old, chances are you've got a million excuses and they're all good. But like you say, go to your room. What said is go... your room. So but does the is the father meaning that? Well, what's UNSAID, the feelings behind it is I'm frustrated, I am disappointed, I'm angry with you, I am punishing you. But if you can get it to another level where the dad actually just needs a break. Yes, he's disappointed, yes he's angry, yes he's mad. The son has done something and he's punishing him. But there's more behind the character where the dad is washed out, he's tired, he's exhausted and he's putting the sun beyond. Just go to your room. But there's now with the selfish desire where I just need me time in order to figure out a Y and Z, whatever my goal is for that scene and motivation is thread scene. Now you're entering into the realm of unsayable. I don't know if that's a really good example. We've got some other examples, but like a character's truest nature can only ever be expressed when under the pressure of life, like conflict, dilemma, stress. The character, when is confronted by conflict, has to make a choice. Yeah, right, and that choice is an act towards a desire that essentially defines who they are. Any time and actors pressured, and Preston, Preston, Preston, Preston, Preston. Suddenly they're pressed up against the wall. They have to make a choice. That's when you can see what type of person that character is. The example that I was using with Hans. It's a bad example, but it's an example nonetheless. It's like you're hanging off a cliff. You've got you your hanging here and you've got another person here and you got a choice to make. Either the you love this person and you're going to show them that we both go together, or you let go and you save yourself, you know, like or Telma and Louise, you know, like here it is. They both are looking at each other and they can make a choice right then and there. Either they can give themselves up to the cops. One of them is innocent because only one of them murdered the guy at the hotel, the guy that tried to rape the other one. Want you know, Susan Surrandon was the one that was guilty of murder. Susan surrandon could have been like go, you're innocent, you're innocent, but oh gosh, what's the name of the other actress? Is it Julia Roberts? No, and Susan Surrandon. That that's a good it's a great screenplay. Anyway. Well, no, it's a good like Trivia question for me right now. You see them both, yeah, and I'm like, Oh, yeah, well, anyway, I love a long story. Short is they have this choice here when they're about to drive off the cliff, and in that moment is the greatest telling of who they are and who their characters are best friends, devoted to each other, unwilling to compromise this. You know, I. You know all the choices that they have made. They're going to go together off this clip right. That choice define them as characters and ultimately define what the movie was all about. When a character is pressed, and pressed and press, the cops are hot on your pursuit, that got you pinned against the wall, the choice that you make is the greatest defining moment of who you are as character. The words that you choose to say in that moment in order to get out or to execute your desire is action and those actions, that action, is that which is unsayable. It's not something that you write you don't write that down and say you know, because in dellman Louise, it wasn't like they didn't stop and say. In order for us to, you know, be truly true to ourselves, what we must do now is drive off of this cliff like no, no, they made they had choices of words where it showed their fidelity to one another and it was the perfect dialog which exhibited character. That's the unsayable, right. So, having said that, we've got a couple examples let's use examples. You, you, you go, because this was your example and it was perfect. Show me the money, perfect examp. Yeah, that's I'm constant. You know, until the character unveiled, that he's fully invested, he's you know, he's a in agreement with Couga good junior and yeah, yeah, coobagooting junior was trying to get out of the Tom Cruises character, that he was completely sold out for him. Yeah, you know, and that there, that bond was there and that and that Tom and that Tom Cruise character could, could represent coobagooting junior, could represent them. And he put him in a situation where he chose specific words to manipulate and the choice that Tom Cruise made was to follow through,...

...even with that dialog and and he made a choice. He made a choice and it was to repeat, show me the money, but where he broke his his character and was yelling on the phone, you know what I mean, and it was humiliating. Yeah, now, whether it's read or it's acted, fine dialog creates a window that allows the reader or the audience, the viewer, to see through the talk and truly genuinely see the persona see the character. And there isn't a greater example than the example that we were talking about before we started the show, where Hans showed us the scene and reminded us of the scene and good will hunting. Oh yeah, the scene and good will hunting between Robin Williams and Matt Damon where Robin Williams is going through the files and he sees the bruises on Matt Damon's body and he come fronts or talks about the fact, you know, his dad and the dad being an alcoholic abuser, and he closes the file and he approaches and you mentioned something. The camera work in there is so meticulous, so specific, because camera doesn't move until one particular moment. Go back and watch that scene and watch the moment when that camera moves forward. It's as almost as if the audience is putting us in this uncomfortable moment. Yeah, like don't go back, don't shy away and throw aby it right and Robin Williams is getting up to him and close to him and he's saying it's not your fault, and Matt Damon's like yeah, yeah, being a tough guy. Yeah, you know, it's not you. It would have fallen apart if he wasn't a bit aful tough guy. It's not your fault. Yeah, and then the camera pushes in and it's so uncomfortable and that Damon is uncomfortable and and he's getting closer and he's getting closer and that moment with those words with us, what's said, what's not said, underneath, like I'm I'm here for you, I'll be your father in this moment and like the unsayable is, you know, like the motivation is to restore not humanity but confidence, like back in Matt Damon's character so that he can finally be to fulfill, yeah, that gifted person that he is like. And you feel that moment and he it's closer and then the camera work and all of it comes together with the dialog and the great acting, brilliant casting and that final release, the breakdown when he cries. It doesn't matter how many times I watch it, I cry. I cried today when I watched I was just like hmm, yeah, right, yeah, because it the performance was amazing. I mean you think about Robin Williams, this comedian, to be put in that role of such serious this. I mean it was it was well casted and you know, and his simple line of just drawing closer and drawing closer. It nailed all three and that's why it won Oscars. Yeah, yeah, all around. Yeah, absolutely, and and it's set up both Matt Damon and Ben Affleck for the career that they have now. One script brilliantly written, while cast and character choices, I mean the actors had to go beyond just the letter that's on the piece of paper. They take this script their relationship, because this is how we started our conversation, the actors relationship to the script. The added an actor, a good actors relationship to the script is one that they are looking beyond just the logos, the letter. They're looking at what's beneath that, the motivations, the objects of desire, you know, what's said, what's unset and what's unsayable, and every single one of these moments that they presented a conflict. Yeah, and and and the best, the best marriages between actor character and then an actor who is also a prepared researcher and study or of the and has a good relationship with what, you know, the process that they go through in the character that they're about to execute creates, yeah, indelible, beautiful cinematic moments that they're not just beautiful for the sake of beautiful. They also have an impact on the viewer. And going back to psychology and the last episode, it literally has the ability to change and shift something in the person viewing and in India individual and inform them creative about something and be able to recognize wow, you know, there are people like this in my world right, you know. And and it informs us, it informs us about the world around us, it opens us up to one understanding beyond just our own personal microcosm and it gives us tools for survival. I mean, that's what great cinema does, you know, and we talked about it when we talked to Bobby Bishop in the last episode, just about music, you know, and sometimes how people use music... a form of like cope and escapism, you know, like self help. They'll like they listen to the words of like some depressing song and they'll put themselves in the corner and you know, it's the same thing. Even with great cinema has the ability those moments, those transcendent moments, as the ability to shape culture. We talked about that, along cool any thoughts and closing thoughts, cots. The end of the day, all dialog is action. Yeah, and that's what's important for us to recognize. When it comes to the said, the unset and the unsayable, it's just up to you, the actor or, you know, the director, whoever you are, but specifically talking to actors, to determine what exactly is the action that the characters trying to take. Yeah, you know, as you were talking, I was thinking of a movie that really impacted me and the character, actually, I'll say the line. Guy. It's give us free, I'm a stade US free, and he's a man who should know any English. And you know, he says he's able, you know, to by I mean that that, for me, was was brilliant. I mean they're all just in shock the fact that he was able to speak for himself. You know, that was his freedom right there, that very moment of that line was his freedom to be able to speak and use his words. Are All right's great stuff. All right. Well, we'll cut it off there because we're essentially at the at the hour mark. There's probably a ton more that we can talk about, but will and there would it be a ton that I'm going to read on the comments too. Yes, please, please share with us your comments, your thoughts, questions, even about some of that stuff that we were unable to figure out at the beginning of the episode. We'd love to hear from you. Johnth you got a creator's tip a week, it is said our time. Sure the creators see here. Tip of the week. See. Yeah, mine is get yourself a Han sing your yeah, I got an APP. You know, we've been on this acting thing for a while, so I've been kind of doing some research, plan around with some stuff and I wanted to find something where for actors who, yes, who want to do selftape, and I chose one before and I found another one that's pretty cool. If you didn't like the other one that I mentioned, I have this one slatable. It's a self tape yourself. So basically it's pretty simple. It's a cool APP that allows you to self tape, but it uses it and organizes it and it's actually looks very professional. So it's usable for if you want to use that to send out to someone, so like you'd be using your phone and it gives you the criteria and everything that you need to be able to create a good self tape to give to a casting director. Well, that's awesome. latable. Yea, mine is I actually brought up in the podcast. It's Robert McKee's book dialog and and I just I just mentioned it in the podcast, but I want to actually recommend it as a tool, as a creative tool for it's not just for writers. It the thing about Robert McKee is that he's very high concept. He's very lofty as words and like the way that he philosophies around the constant, you know, writing and directing and acting. All that is sometimes, often times actually up to understand because he gets like really deep and nuanced. But if you can, if you pick up that book and you read it, I guarantee you're going to pick up some really great things just about dialog and Translating Dialog and how Dialog is action and and it'll help you become a better actor. It's a pretty healthy it's a pretty thick read, but it's a good read. It's not as thick as this book story, which is the one that essentially made him famous, but he's got a couple of books. He's got story, dialog and story nomics, which is more so for businesses. They're all great reads. I think you know they're all fantastic. If you can't read it and you want to listen to it, it's also I know he's recorded his voice reading his book on the APP called. What's it called? I have the APP here. It is audible, on the audible APP. Oh, that's Oh cool. Yeah, so he on the audible APP. You can find his books on there. And if you sign up for audible, I think if you pay like the first fee or something like that, they give a free they give a free free reading. If you sign up for the very first time you can get that book for three on audible. So here there's two and one audible, the APP and dialog the book, and then you could just listen to it. And sometimes it's easier. Maybe you can listen and read it at the same time and it's easy to capture the words. But anyway, it's a really good book. I think you guys are really going to enjoy it. It is a tough book, but it's a it's a it's got a ton of information. Cool, so cold. All right, guys. Well, thank you so very much for joining us at the harvest podcast. The harvest podcast. Now. We did say please include in the comments thoughts, questions, ideas, anything at all that you guys may have regarding the episode and definitely help us...

...out with some of the questions that we still have lingering. If you have short questions, though, you can also reach us on social media. You can reach us on instagram and on twitter. I'm at twitter at x Garcia, at Jonathan Harvest, and for any longer questions, if you want to just ask question but you don't want to put it on a like on a public forum, that's cool, that's fine. You can email us and we'd love to read them. Info at Mount Harvestcom or Mount Harvest at gmailcom, and you can ask us anything. Thoughts, comments, questions, concerns, ideas, anything fun that you may have. Just send it our way. Please don't send scripts. Unfortunately we can't read those. There is an enda process that we like to go through and everything just to kind of protect you as the writer and ourselves. But ideas, thoughts, comments, questions, all day, please send them our way. Thank you so much to our show producer, Chelsea Cowley, and guys, we hope you enjoyed episode number twenty nine on acting. Yeah, and please kick their subscribe button, share like it. Thank you, guys,.

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