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The Harvest
The Harvest

Episode · 2 years ago

Ep.031 - The Director of Photography & Script Relationship (PART II)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Last week we began a long and in depth conversation regarding the relationship between the Director of Photography and the Script. We kicked off the discussion by identifying the position the DP holds as one of great privilege. They are the first audience-member to the performance and yet they’re simultaneously the most important crew member in the crafting of the story and therefore must be completely removed as a passive observer. It’s a really interesting dichotomy and one that often clashes on set as the acting is happening right before their very eyes.

Today we continue the discussion with PART 2 and dig a bit deeper into specific circumstances where THE PLAN falls apart. How to handle the unexpected and being creative in moments where your back is up against the wall.

Hey, you don't good. Yes, you look like you're ready to go. I am. Well, awesome, because I am too. And here we are in the harvest, where we discuss everything cinema and story, and as you we learn, you learn, and as we grow, you grow. My Name is Xavier Garcia, I'm Jonathan Gerson, and this is episode thirty one, kind of a part two. Yes, to our last week's discussion regarding the relationship between director of photography in the script. Last week we began really in depth conversation and we ran out of time, but it was regarding the relationship between the director of photography in the script, and we kicked off the discussion by identifying the position that the DP holds as one of great privilege. They are the first audience member to the performance, and yet they are simultaneously the most important crew member in the crafting of the story, and therefore they must be completely removed as a passive observer. It's a really interesting dichotomy and one that often clashes on set, as as the acting is happening like right before their very eyes. And today we continue to discussion with part two. We're going to dig a little deeper into specific circumstances where the plan the plan falls apart. Dundon't so you know I'm going to talk about how to handle the unexpected and being creative in moments where your back is up against the wall. Cool, love it, ready for it. Yeah, I'm gonna hit you with a barrage of question and hope I can answer you're going to have to like swap them like bad vibes. That's right, like that mean? You know I talk, you're no, okay, let's get started. All right. So where we left off? This is where we left it. We were talking about, you know, Murphy's law. Yeah, when something can go wrong, it will go wrong. You know, something always goes it's not according to plan. It's just the nature of the film set. There's so many variables, so many people, and everybody coming with like their own problems. Yes, sue circumstances, worries, concerns, and you expect everybody to come on set, shut all that off and be a hundred percent focus on the task. And sometimes it's just like it doesn't happen a hundred percent like that, like how you plan it right or, for example, long hours and people get tired when they get tired, they get sloppy and when they get sloppy accidents kind of happen. Things like that. You know, sometimes things don't go according to planning. We've got stories. Oh do we have stories. We've got stories now when something doesn't go according to plan. Jonathan, would you consider that necessarily that like right or wrong? Does it mean that it's right if it goes according to plan or wrong if it doesn't go according to know sometimes there are happy accidents, you know. So you can never say that everything that doesn't go according to plan is wrong. Right. Yeah, no way. We've had experiences where things have gone wrong and we've had such beautiful moments. Sure, I know one occasion during Cross road where he didn't have the lighting suitable for the scene as the sun was coming down and we were hoping to have kind of been done at that point and had a specific right, that's right moment, planning on bright doming into right into the night for certain scenes, and here comes the sun during the round the reveal of Jesus. So it was just like wow, you know, so you know it. Sometimes there are things like that where you like, you know, the lights, Son's going down. What do we do? Just keep rolling the sun. You know. Yeah, we had some pretty cool incidence. I mean another one, and this one's an embarrassing one, so I'm not even gonna mention any names or anything like that, but you can, people can look it up and find the stuff up. But we had a miscommunication between Wardrobe Department and our lead actor, remember this, and our lead actor who is playing the role of Jesus, there...

...was some miscommunication and he didn't have his sandals. No, and he didn't have a sandals for his shoot and and I can't remember what it was that we couldn't get it in time. Like we just had to roll. I think we were behind schedule and it was something that seemed as though it was a major accident. This way, Jesus was in character because he's like, I don't need them, that's right, it, that's I let's just roll. Let's just roll, because maybe Jesus wouldn't have had seen. Yes, right, at least resurrected Jesu. Yeah, I think he. I think he tried to to use the you know, the foxes have holes at you know the scripture, you know, and but the son of man has no place to rest his head and he's like the son of man has no sandals to walk, as it US said, does resurrected Jesus does not. So he did his whole scene. So we will rock walking, like the whole path was on stones, right, it was on stones and on rocks and it was uncomfortable. I know it was uncomfortable and I was wearing I was wearing boots because it was a rugged terrain. Oh yeah, and I know and I was uncomfortable. So, as a director walking around, I can only imagine how uncomfortable and painful he was. But he said that he was so in the moment and so in the roll and embracing the environment and embracing what was happening that he was like using the pain to depict just kind of the son of man in agony and in a place of like true emotional death. And and I don't know, you don't know how we were talking about, you know, just like the message took the film crossword was about the beauty of the feet, right, you know, it was the scripture that says how beautiful the feet of those who preach the Gospel right to bring good news right now. So it's like that that that picture of Isaiah. You know where the Messenger comes from, the mountains running, you know, with this, with this great announcement and declaration of Good News, you know, and coming exhausted to right Claire, the kingdom, and so like it worked right and work and it ended up working along with the Post St because right the cover you have the up having, you know, very dirty, messy, ugly feet, and then say how beautiful are those feet? It's like what makes it so beautiful is because they've done work, they've traveled, they've gone through terrain's and they're dirty, they're filthy, but what makes them beautiful is the Gospel Message, the message that they bring in. So we're so so it was like all of it worked. It was weird. It was a happy accident, right, it shouldn't have happened, you know, like this should not have been a barefoot Jesus on like jagged rocks and Jackassis and yeah, I'm sure that those classes. So, anyway, a happy accident, right, you know, the actor, we all talked, we all discussed and you know, it was it was used and embraced and it led to like some really powerful performance. So there's an a there's a situation of circumstance where it's not necessarily wrong. Not Always, when something doesn't go according to plan, is it wrong, per sees. We were just saying, it could be that circumstances have brought up unforeseen challenges. We like to call those, you know, new opportunities. Yes, right, yeah, that that's the best word, opportunities. That in they need to be addressed at that moment in a way that I like to see it, and I know you share in agreement with me on this, is that creativity. Creativity is the synthesizing of preparation and like those new opportunities. Right, so when your preparation and a new opportunity have to come together, like, you got to get creative, because if you're not, if you're going to call those, those moments, those unforeseen challenges, as opportunities, but you you're prepared for many opportunities things can lead to creative outcome. Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, I know a famous saying is necessity is the mother of inventions, right, you know, so where there's a desperate need or some something that you have to like solve and figure out, you have we've been given the ability to problem solve and to find ways and challenge ourselves to innovate and creating new ideas. I mean that is if you listen to deacons podcast or anything Deacon's ever done, a lot of the stuff that he does on set is just...

...his rigs and his innovations of lighting and doing different things to try to make his idea come to pass. So, yeah, there are challenges and their beautiful challenges, and you just have to see him that way so that you can actually give yourself the ability to think right, because that's important, especially in a set where people are dependent on you to be on your toes and ready for answers. Yeah, preparation, preparation, how much research and preparing and anticipating? And Yeah, absolutely, and it does does lead to creative outcomes. I love it. So now, Jonathan, as as a DP, how do you handle the planned versus the unplanned? And I'm let me, let me, let me ask that in a different way. What do you do doing those moments? For example, your DP, we last last week's episode was all about, you know, you being an audience. You're the first audience member, right, so you're watching actors. You're the first one to receive the performance that is before you and therefore, you're both actor and creative at the same exact time. You know your crew member, but you're also this observer. Now what happens? What do you do as a DP when something happens that's totally unplanned? Right, like the actors are in the zone, they're in the zone and they gift you with this brilliant moment that you weren't ready for. It was a moment that wasn't blocked it wasn't taped out or measured as far as distance, it wasn't rehearsed right, it was just something that came out of nowhere and you can sense that it's perfect, but you know, like, it wasn't something that, for example, wasn't taped down and blocked out for the mount actor to hit his mark and be in focus right like, and it's happening right before your very eyes. Like, can you prepare for something like that ahead of schedule? I mean, I guess it depends on the scenario. Right, if it's a again, something that was an accident, or something that could be an injury of some sort or equipment malfunction or gosh, I mean there's so many things that could happen in that moment that are so unplanned. It's kind of hard for you, as the DP, to make much, to make many decisions when you're rolling with the camera, because that's your job. You you are not the person who will call cut. You will never be, and you have to understand that that's the director's roll, and sometimes the assistant director, if that should be handed over to him. And so you really have to capture everything that is both planned and unplanned, regardless of the fact, because again, you'll be surprised by performances or by something that happened and the reaction of the actor will be brilliant. Yeah, you'll always find yourself with the power of hand dealing with that afterwards. You could just cut it out, you just get rid of it, don't use it, you know, but the best and the most important thing for the camera person is just to take everything in. Yeah, right, is it, you know, and I mean yeah, absolutely, hands down. But like having a team of professionals, for example, people that you can trust, you know, like, okay, is my first a seat, pulling focus on this right, right, you know, like this wasn't taped, this wasn't planned, he's not going to his marks. But what I'm seeing is brilliant. I feel like you have to have a trust and almost like a shorthand, you know, like you give a glance and they know what you're saying, like I got this, don't worry, we're on it, you know, like just the I don't know, I did. Have you found that, like working with people that you've have experi us with, there's like a learning curve that's been removed and those moments to handle easier. Yeah, that is it? Just that, because you're professional, you just know how to do it. No, I mean, remember your you could just be looking in a monitor and you...

...have a whole team handling the equipment and you're expecting them to kind of mail down what's on paper. And sometimes you need to find people that are on board with your vision and what you've guys planned out. And sometimes you'll have someone who isn't pulling a racking focus on the moment you want them to. And Yeah, you'll be end up crazy. Yeah, exactly, a bit. You'll be surprised. Here's the thing is, we you, and I say this all the time, the story is King Right. So we have to make sure we're telling the story a hundred percent and there are sometimes happy accidents, but the end of the day, story is King. So if those happy accidents are just beautiful but they don't tell the story, then there's no point right for them. So they're no longer happy. They're right accent. There's just accidents, exactly. So you know how I handle unplanned situations. I mean it depends on the scenario and preparation is is key. It's number one to be able to handle those situations because you it's not that you say, okay, if this happens, then I'll do this, if that happens, I'll do this. It's not like that. It's more so how to comport yourself. Yes, thank in the middle of when that problem happens. Yes, I feel like the more mature, more prepared, more confident DP's are not going to freak out in a moment like that and start yelling at people right, right, like they'll be professionals, right right. You know, they'll see the moment and so they'll behave like professionals, you know, and especially if they've got they've been doing this a long time. It's like seeen it been there, done that. No one to handle it. You know, chill everyone relax that type of thing. I think you nailed it. How one comports himself, how long they be, how they behave in that moment. And sometimes you get, unfortunately, you even get some seasoned veterans it, just like, you know, the Deva mentality and the diva type. Like, you know, I am the autist, I am the the DP. You know, like how dare you not do it the way that and it's like that's a sign of immaturity. And Yeah, and it's an unfortunate thing. That actually happens a lot in indie cinema because everybody's trying to make a name for themselves. Yeah, I heard this the other day on TV. Is like EGO has no Amigos, and it's true. If you have an EGO on set, you're not going to be able to connect and work with your team. You know, they'll end up seeing you as a person who's trying to outperform yourself and and and be noticed. You know, this is a team thing, you know, and so you're trying to work together to make sure that you're a be able to unveil this thing out. I think that's the difference between you know, like like the technical DP and in the artist, because the the person that screams out, I am in Artiste. How dare you Blah Blah Blahs, like no, because an artist, right, they're able, like, art happens in those in between moments, right. It's like there's the very technical stuff, and then what happens in those in between moments where, like things are starting to break down a little bit, but then, like creativity comes in and you solve it and something beautiful happens. That was unplanned, it's like. And then you step back and you're like, I was prepared for the moment. We handle it like professionals. We were on our toes and we overcame and something artistic and beautiful came out as a result. And I'm not saying that art is always a mistake or an accident, right, like, but by no means like an artist can actually go into a moment and create our even through the technical but I think that like it is the more mature, more professional individuals that can recognize that moment and sees it as an opportunity to like, okay, this was on planned, we have to be creative, let's make art, right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, okay, agree. So now a couple of examples. Yeah, we got we were just talking about the I have to but I want to skip to the second one real quick. We're talking about Fox catcher two thousand and fourteen, for there's a scene...

...in there where channing tatum, he's in the hotel room after to losing a wrestling match, right and he starts to punch himself in the head. He's punching himself in the face. And when you're watching that, channing TANEM's a big dude, he's a strong dude and you can tell that he's punching himself and he's not just like slapping. Yeah, I know, so it's just not rule. He had he worked out punches be able to and as he's punched himself, he walks past the mirror and he catches himself looking at himself in the mirror and he just starts to ram his head into the glass, through the mirror, over and over and over again. And that wasn't scripted. The punching into the face wasn't scripted, and he broke through that mirror, he broke through the sheet rock and then he slammed his head right into the Stud on the other side of that sheet rock, but the camera man kept rolling despite the fact that he was bleeding and he could see the glass inside the cut and you knew that he was going to need stitches and there was potential harm being done to him. And his face is, you know, I mean that's his that's his money maker, right, he's a he's a good looking dude. And then he finishes ramming his face through the mirror and he continues pacing around and he's like punch, he's punches the lamp to the ground and puts his you know, cuts his hand on that too. Yeah, and there's like cuttle over his face and there's no dialog for like ten minutes. There's no dialog. It's just a really physical sets set of like scenes, and then then he's done. He sits down and then there's a cut. Then there's finally a cut because I think he finally the pain started to happen and he's like settling into reality and then like the the, the the the actor, or sorry, the director, calls cut. Now, in that specific moment, you, as the DP, you have a choice, right, and this is a hard choice. Like what do you do? Right, like you stop the camera and get him medical attention because there's a root, there's a possibility that he's hurt, or you keep rolling because you're seeing probably something that you will that can could never be rehearsed, it could never have been scripted, it couldn't. You could have never asked an actor to do that and he's doing it and he's giving it to you on a platter, and so you keep rolling right. Well, the the DP kept rolling, like how is it DP, how do you balance that? Now you already answered a little bit. It's like it's not your job, but I mean, can you talk a little bit about like the emotions that go through your mind at that moment? It's so hard because not only are you seeing the seeing, but you're very so, I mean personally for me, you're very self aware of what is happening because you're capturing it, you know what I mean, and it's so hard to try to try to stop something that the actors literally giving you. He you chose to give you that performance and take it to another level and it would be rude to me to be like, all right, cut just because it's hurting you. You know what I mean. He is putting his life at risk for the role and it's hard to to say no and and sometimes you just gotta sit there and take it. But then there are moments where, for instance, we were talking about this before we were sitting down, the particular movie that was being filmed where a train was coming and they were filming on the train track. I can't remember the title of it, but I know that one of the early FROO members was killed on it. And you know, when you're seeing an incoming train or you're doing something, you have to think about you know, all like you know. I mean, it's not it's not just you can't just stay like, oh, look, everybody's going to die and...

...you stay on that track and you keep filming exactly. So it's like you're not just going to risk the lives of people right the sake at some point. At some point there has to be so you're literally like you're measuring yeah, yeah, because you are, you you are. You could be risking, you know, just for something. I need something amazing, so I need you to risk your life for it, and I think for me personally, I couldn't do that worth that's it's not worth it. You know, like I could think about like firstance couldn't Tarantino be like, let me use my hands to choke you and and I'm going to really press and then you see his fingers really digging into her skin and it's just in. It's like how far you go till it's too far? Yeah, and so you have to discuss that stuff with your team. Yeah, did the director, if you're and figure out, like, you know, is it necessary right, what are we saying from it? Is it the best thing for the story? Right, and go from there. Yeah, I think a good rule of thumb, and you can correct me if I'm if I'm way off base, but a good rule of thumb is like, look, the script is what was approved, the script is what's King and if somebody is putting people's lives at risk, or health or even just injury for something that wasn't already approved, because, like, the script goes through many hands, it goes through people that are thinking about it from financial perspectives, from safety perspective, from all those things, and and it gets approved. And so what's on the script is the thing to do, you know, like Shanning tantem putting his head through the glass. Was It on the script right? If it had been on the script. That would have been done properly. It would have been done, you know, like with a stunt double who knows what he's doing, he's trained. It would have been probably, you know, like fake glass, the breakable glass. That wouldn't have been a stud on the other side. So, like stick to the script. You know, if you if you want an amazing moment, then do it in the writing and have it already preplanned, discussed, you know, but sometimes those happy accidents do happen and I feel like, like that director, you have to have a lot of trust. It's the DP in the director that the director cares a lot about everyone on that set and that they're not going to put people's lives at risk for the sake of EGO or self or, you know, of trying to get a better, bigger shot. You know, like because they're the are most of the time, these actors. They want to give you their best. They do, they want to all the time, and sometimes they will bring time. You know, certain they'll put themselves those at risk risk. Right, yeah, and some, and you have to be sometimes the mediator. It's like this. It's like the football player with the coach. They'll play through a broken leg to please you know, like a high school kid will play through a broken leg to please the coach, because it's like, especially when they believe in the script. So right, yeah, and and you know, and you hear this a lot, you hear it in Hollywood and podcast talking about like an actor's mentality, and you know, like they oftentimes look at the directors like a father or parent, a parent figure, depending male female director, like as a parent figure. And so they're they're literally on that set vulnerable and making themselves vulnerable hoping to please the director, is like this parent figure, and so they'll go, they'll dance through hoops, they'll jump through fire hoops, you know, in order to do those things and the director. That's why I like it's important for that team to become a real family and a real team. And I'm not saying that like on Hollywood sets you're gonna have the time to like be Best Bros with you or your best pals. Yeah, but you're not. The way we do it is we're we're shepherds, you know. I mean where there, the whole team, the crew, everyone's are like the sheeps that we take care of. You know, they're in a set that we're fully responsible for. Ye, and if anything goes wrong, whether they didn't eat right, you know, whether they didn't sleep, you know, whether they were at risk or something. You know, we're constantly trying to find making sure and things slip. Things sometimes, you know, get missed, but when we know what we are sometimes we'll go above and beyond, you know, just say that others won't. Yeah, you know, and and...

...that sometimes we don't get checked on our then they're wives. You're telling us, you know, and you like if you wait, sorry exactly, to pull backs. So I mean, you know, it is it's something where there needs to be some sort of checks and balance, but you know, at the end of the day, you nailed it. Communication is super important, you know, and you need to be communicating with a team that you know has a similar sensibilities. You know, like I know after having gone through you know, and even in a Hollywood film set, because, like, these people don't come together just for the sake of come together. A lot of these people are, you know, just kind of informally interviewed into the team and so like through that process as you're building your team, just can'ting to know, for example, your DP is like, or the DP going to accept the job understanding that the the the director, has a similar sensibility to them? So that's like, I know where I draw my line is this is this DP or sorry, director, like, does he think similar to me? Have we talked enough, if we communicated enough to know that we're making the same movie, that we're you know, that we're making it the same way with the same goals at heart, the same you know, that kind of stuff, and I think you nail that. Communication is key and, and here's a little pro tip for everyone, communication on a film set is is key just in general. I mean that that is like that's what makes happy film set. And obviously, you know, it has to be at an appropriate time. You know, like you don't want a PA coming up to you while you're in the middle of filming saying your cars being tout. Yeah, like here in the middle of a scene you're shooting. You don't want that, obviously, like within reason. But like communication on a film set, especially, you know, between department heads, at the appropriate time and at the right time, is key. It's important. And then knowing when not to communicate something. It's also important sometimes you get the people that are like drama, you know, drama, all right, you know, and you're like, okay, be selfaware, you know, like if you know you're the type of person that the tends to be dramatic and only dramatic. Know also when not to communicate something. went to pull back and be professional. Know who to talk to, the channels. You know, like you don't want to be bothering the director with something that like the second a d can handle. Yeah, it means it's not that you don't want to bother the DPP just because he's high up, but because he has so much in his mind, so much, so much in his mind. The people that are, you know, like actors, they have so much in their mind and and it's it's basically you adding more to it. Yeah, yeah, and it look and in that like Fox catcher example that we just brought in and talked about, like at that moment and in those types of certain circumstances and situations like the tip, everyone knows, everyone on set knows, like do we stop this or do we keep going? And unfortunately you're the one with the power to hit the off button right and there's so many relationships at that Poo, at that point that are at flocks, like there's so many. Like your relationship to the director right, like because you gotta, you know, your relationship and responsibility to the actors. It's like here's the five star general, he has the rocket button, but the president is the one who says right, like I said, don't press right exactly. So it's like that. Yeah, you can't do anything really until you get your you know, and so your order. So so now that's like the x one extreme. That's one extreme, right, like the guy putting their head or gal putting their head through glass. Then there's the all the other extreme, the other end of the spectrum, when you're watching a scene and you're like look, you're just you're like what you're seeing is so beautiful, but you got to hold it together. It's that ever happened to you where? Yeah, he just wants to come call us. Yeah, so caught up into it, or you so excited or like you you're loving it, and then it's like, you know, you could almost affect the camera or the movement or the shaking. You handle it, like how can you be so connected? Because you have to be, but then disconnected at this. Well, I think that comes with, you know, doing it over and over again, being a professional. Yeah, well, I mean...

...you don't experience, experience, yeah, just you're so focused on knowing what you're supposed to capture that you're able to it's kind of like when you first start driving. I remember when I first started driving, I went through like I was much an amazing like right turn, got it, you know, left turn, Park at boomboo. But when I drove I went through the red light three or four times because I just forgot. When I was doing my test, I this got yeah, because because I just forgot, like, Oh yeah, I gotta, I gotta, you know, I gotta break it's not at the Red Light. So I just blew it. Tobyge what did you see there? You know, and so, but that's like you learn to multitask and you learn to see. Ye, you'll learn to see move and especially if you're just kind of just sitting down, you know, watching a monitor, you know you gotta, you gotta, you know, really hold it, and that's why, that's why sometimes I like to be behind the camera, but there're certain scenes were I'll now, let me just be behind the Monitor. It's a small, tight, you know, simple scene. Yes, I want, yeah, I want to capture, make sure I got the scene actually and the emotions. I'm focusing on along with you, because I'm always fighting to hat, like to grab the Monitor and check is I want to be. You know, it's like I come from the theater, right background, you don't have a monitor. In theory, you're watching her at you know, you're watching it from the first row, middle row, back row to see of like how the action is being portrayed, you know, through the depth of the of the house, and that's kind of like how I see the performances, you know, and but then I realize, wait a minute, it's about what's in the frame, right, and so it's like you got to go back to the Monitor and Cassi Monitor. But then when you watch the Monitor, there's this weird thing, and for me anyway, that happens in my brain, where I become the observer as opposed to like the hands on engage creator, and so like I'll be sitting there and people make fun of me all the time. Oh Yeah, Oh yeah, I do. They see my mouth like and I'm like, I'm saying the words and I'm watching the screen. Of that. Yeah, and you know, like usually, you know you, you know if it's a good put. All right, before I looking at me, savor his face. He's doing along with it. It's like that's great, yeah, awesome, all right. So now let's talk of about some circumstances that affect the relationship between you and the script. Now, there's no doubt that all crew people's are on set to serve the script. That's the point, that on set to serve the blueprint. But there are times when circumstances affect what's on the written page. Right, remember we talked about like a good rule of thumb is to just serve what's on the page. Right, serve what's on the page. Just do what's on the page. Everybody has agreed upon what's on the page. It's gone through its proper checks and balances and that is what's safe and that is what right, is good story. Well, that's what you did your homework on. Right. You can't come in or someone coming in, like we talked about divas, saying, well, I want to do this angle of a shot because it just looks better on lighting, and that it at times you have to first do what's on shot. And then come back and be like yeah, let's throw that shot in there too, but but it's not. It's not primary. It will not on the yeah, and and and and you can certainly add shots. Like things are ahead of schedule. You guys are blowing through things, everything's perfect. You know, one take Johnny is like hitting, hitting on his marks, you know. And you know, like one roll susie is rocking in. It's like, boom, we're done. There's always a reason why you had that shot right. But then there's also the other end of it, right, like you don't have money. You know, money is probably one of the biggest factors on a film set that like that affect the actual written word, right. It's like you've got a written word but you ran out of money, so forget the written word. Sometimes you just gonna have to cut out scenes. Right, that's happened. It happens all time. Happens some big, big big budget film sets, on Hollywood film sets all the time. You know, you're looking through and you're saying, okay, we're out of money. Where do we cut? Because this exactly, you know, we've been begging the studios for for funding, for funding, for funding, and they're just they're not budging. You know, money is one...

...schedule is another. We just talked about schedule, unforeseen illnesses, accidents. That happens all the time. You know, someone gets sick, especially now with covid you know, like somebody gets could I give God forbids? One gets covid on a film set right, like immediate shutdown, immediate, you know, quarantine, fourteen days off. Yeah, everybody's got to get tested, sticks in their noses, you know, like it's it. They can get it can happen. It can derail a production. It could derail a production studio. Pressure any every once in a while, you know, like and and I'm talking like big budget films now, or maybe not a big bunch of film, maybe it's an independent film, but you've got your independent financier who's got ideas. Yeah, and they they've got these big ideas and they add pressure and they change. Which one? I can this fill in the heat of this or for that? Or want it's daughter, I want my buddy in it. Yeah, you know, I don't know where. You know they're rich. You know, they're a millionaire. They're funding your script. They told their buddy that they're you know that they're funding the script he's like, I want you to put my buddy in the scene. You know, like that happens. Right, that's very common. That's not uncommon. That's very common. It happens. It happens in the independent film world all the time and it even happens in the Hollywood film scene. Or Acts of God, right, you know, absout us. Right, anything, anything. And so let's start from the top. Money. Right, let's say the you have a shot that requires a locked off Dolly and you're dollying it, but the production can't afford a doorway Fisher Dolly. Right, you can't afford but the shot, as you read it and as you storyboard it and as you planned it, it's this. You know, it's locked off, it's a Dolly and maybe it's got like a you know, the doorway. The Fisher dollies also do slight jibs, you know, and so it's like it's the perfect piece of equipment, but you don't like. Production said, sorry, don't have the money for that. So it like at that point it's gonna Affect the written page, right, because what are you going to do? You could you could use a steadicam maybe you could hope pray that you have a great grip team and they can invent something and right and throw it together and make it do the same exact thing. Right. That's that was you're saying. That's when necessity becomes the mother of invention. Right choice. But does it or does it not immediately affect the story? I mean, we know camera moves. We talked about this a lot on the on the show. Camera moves are not just camera moves for the sake of being cool. You're choosing camera moves because each move says something. So does that now not say something else? Is it not? Absolutely so. The word happen to us on a short we were doing on underground. The first scene, the first shot was supposed to be literally a track in and as it tracked in it was actually upside down and it's slowly flipped it right. Sound like a one hundred and eighty. Yeah, as as we were trying in with them running into the shot, right, because that said something exactly, said a lot. Well, it's saying, you know, here are these men, because at the last, last, last shot it's you know, it's them upside down and then looking up over and so it was telling the audience here we are, these two men who are literally doing something that is off. It's so legal in the sense, but we're going to flip it and going to show you that this that's because of the Times that we're in. But what they're doing is right. And actually the last shot is okay, we're entering into a time where these men are coming in and something wrong, something that's going to happen. So, you know, I still to this day that's my biggest regret for that film, not being able to nail that opening shot, because it was literally the whole point. Yeah, sometimes a single shot can be the whole point and the reason behind the film. Yeah, when you're flipping or switching sides, more breaking the one hundred...

...and eighty right, you're saying a major turn of events, something is happening here, something just switched, a new I think of coming focus, and attention needs to be paid on that type of right, exactly something just happened. Did you see what just happened? Because that's going to tell much of the story later on. So many reasons for movements that you know when you lose that, when you don't have the equipment, you know, again you gotta either get rid of shots and hopefully the story stays intact, or find new ways to create them. Yeah, yeah, well, next one schedule. So the production goes out of schedule and now you're having to choose scenes, right, like that stuff happens. We were just talking about that, to cut in order to be able to make the film, which is all ultimately also a budget issue, right. Or like, for example, you have an actor who's, you know, contracted only for a certain amount of time. You know, it's like you there, you've got your lead and your lead is supposed to be on set for a month and the production goes forty five days and you don't have your lead for the last fifteen days. You know, at that point, like, what do you do? It's like you've got to start cutting out scenes or you got to be making some serious choices that affect the written page. And that happened to us. That happened to us even on a blood throne. One of our actors was double booked and it was approved. The actor went through all of the right protocols in order to make sure that that God approved, but the production had unforeseen circumstances where it went over schedule and it affected that day's shooting and how we were going to cap off that day, and choices needed to be made by the production to scale back in areas where we were supposed to like go all out with a scene, and that affects it's you know the effects. It affected deepete, the deep he's choices about certain shots and angles and you know, and and sometimes that's the unplanned happening. And this is all about that. This is all about like shifting and knowing how to be professional in those moments, thinking on your feet, being creative and all out of creativity had to happen as a result of that. Yeah, a lot of times when a DP is put in a position where they have to get rid of a shot, the number one thing, as we said, is stories. So whatever shot you're going to replace it with, it has to be the bridge of whatever was taken away. So it has to okay, if I can't don't have a Dolly that or I don't have a steadicamp that flies through the scene to show the environment, well then you need to have a shot that can say the same thing. Maybe not do the same thing, but say the same thing or as close to or closely pros the possible that you know that will be more cost effective, for it would be time, you know, for quicker whatever it is. The first thing that you think of is, okay, what do I have to do? I have to say what I was saying earlier. How do I say it with the limitations I've been put on? And that's when everything that you've already said. Communication is key, because you talk to you a gaffer, you talked to you a grip team, you know, you talked to your director, your you know the and you start to come up with solutions. All right, these are the solutions, and that's when creativity, yeah, happens. And and you're not alone. I mean you're saying grip, but you know you have the directors along with you in this predicament. And and he has a vision and you have the the ability to take it there. And so you guys have to be like, all right, you know, it's a team thing. So you're not alone. You know. That's that's really it. So another one? Acts of God up? Yeah, acts of God, like weather. Yeah, disasters. You had a good one. You can't hear, you can't film in certain parts of California. Right now, for example, it's burning down, it's raining fire. New England weather, right, New England, new, New England winter is an act of God just waiting to happen. And like that is New England winter, and oftentimes it affects your what's...

...on the page. And we've got a ton of weather. Yeah, stories. Oh, yeah, we were on a blood throne and you know where? What? Yeah, well, the weather. The weather was supposed to be clear, skies, perfect day. We had horses. We were going to have horses coming down on this hill. It was an entire scene that was supposed to happen during the day and it was going to be like this beautiful shot. Yeah, on a spring days and I'll no, coming down hail, sleet and ice. And then New England win turned to rain and and the what's crazy is that we we are schedule was so tight for that day because we had there was so many like big budget items being used, like the horses, these race horses, all the handlers that were a part of that the the time. Like the license was just for that day, for that space. Like there's just so much working against us and in New England it was it decided to, I think what was this in April? It was like the second week of April. It decided to like literally crack, like the skies opened up with these balls. Yeah, it was. It was so hard because our scheduling time was like nude time and we didn't start, you into like seven PM. Yeah, and so we needed the sunset shot. We didn't have it. You know, we needed, you know, the horses to be calm and relaxed and by that point still are exhausted. And so it was just a culmination of just at almost of the point where we didn't even use a lot of the shots. Right, we had to make a ton of really hard choices. As a DP, you had to make a ton of hard choices because here you've got this entire shot list and you're like I had, you know, forty shots. I got to choose like ten, and that that that's affected the story. Now you're thinking about, okay, how do we salvage this? How? and that was dave one. Yeah, so you could imagine emotionally, I mean you know, just mentally, how it would affect you moving forward from from the hold. Is it if this is how this whole thing's going to be. You got a long road ahead of you. Yeah, and so you have to have mental toughness when you're doing filmmaking, really do. And we made changes. We plan for it. We didn't even have all the lighting that we needed because we weren't planning to be doing night filming right and so but you know, we were prepared with fire, with torches and all that stuff, and so we created ambient mood lighting and we made the best of it. And that's again one of those situations, the unforeseen and the unplanned. But you've got a team of people that you trust, a team of people that believe in the story, they believe in the team, and everybody just rallied together to get it done. It's like we just gotta get it done. Funny, on that day, everything that we talked about, every problem happening, all horses, the horses were like knocking off the actors. Yeah, they were going crazy. Yeah, they dont want to be still. You know, the lights, we didn't have enough lights because at that point, and then we degenerator shooting the generator. You know, we didn't expect the general but thank God we had a generator. But the same time, we didn't have a system to keep it quiet, right, because you usually have it some sort inside the tribe. And but we didn't have that step because we weren't going to film it out and night. Crazy. That's crazy. Yeah, I was. But again, that is one of those circumstances where you know what, as professionals, I mean, that could have literally any any set, anyone else. That could destroy the entire movie. That one day could have destroyed the entire well, everyone would have been like, who were these guys where they got me involved in right, could have destroyed them Arale and the moral exactly. And if, because you were, you were confident, we were able to enter into this. Okay, this is plan B oh Bambi's road to okay, plan see, you know. Yeah, we had like plan F yea. We went all the way down to like Gee. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's preparation again, and then being confident and then working with people that are, you know, like you can trust them. Like I'm looking at you and I'm like we got this, yeah, I got this, we good, yeah, we good. Rights, like Akasam right now, I don't believe in it, you know, like it's okay, I don't either, but because we have each...

...other there, you know, it's like one of us is like having a mental breakdown and the other one is saying we got this, we got this, and then if flips, the other ones having a mental breakdown is like, I got we got this, we got us. Yeah. So, yeah, cool, and let's see other examples. What do we got? So we talked about schedule, acts of God, money, equipment accidents. We talked about that, to studio limitations, things like that. You know, though, you know, money runs out. You know we have been had that. We only got just enough, barely, yeah, for one of our films and you know, we made it happen, but you know, we had to again figure out what kept the story of what didn't write and and sometimes, you know, talk going back to acts of God, it's not necessarily like the huge like for us, for blood drone. That was a huge thing. It was literally everything, everything that could go wrong. Everything went wrong that day. Right, those are the huge things are sometimes it's the little things. It's not like huge acts of God that are going to completely derillian movie. It's the little things that are gonna like derail the entire schedule. I know that there's a story with Roger Deacon. In one thousand nine hundred and seventeen. There were there was this one shot right, it was perfectly clear skies, it was Noonday Sun, it was way too harsh of a sun, and there was this little cloud, this little cloud, and everybody was praying that that little cloud would block the sun so that they could do their shot. And everybody sitting there like Brett held, waiting for that tiny little cloud to come all the way across the sky, across the sky, across the sky, across the sky. They're like it's there, do the shot and you know, one thousand nine hundred and seventeen but one take things. So it's like that was it. And if you don't get that shot while that little cloud was there, you know, you lose that entire day and you hope that the next day had the right cut cloud coverage. That stuff happens to you know, and they like being on your toes, being quick. You know. It's like you can't plan for those types of acts of God. If you will, and I again it comes down to preparation, having a team that you can trust, because imagine if you're like ready to go. Yeah, you gotta go. You gotta know that your team is also a wrong point. Yeah, everybody's ready now. How can you protect how can I? What are some ways? I don't know if you have any, anyways that you could protect against these types of things, if there is any? I mean we talked about a time being prepared and all that, but is there no? I mean there are certain things that we've done. We have added extra days on schedule. Yeah, we have. You know, for instance, when it comes to money, over at the time or rest to me right, as best as you can, and you're allowed to write, you know, when it comes to money, you know, there's things where we have done like raising money on like go fund me and things like that, just to add more funds to the project or for pick up in case we ever had to go back to exact something. Yeah, you know, when it I mean what would the other things? Acts of God, I mean, you know, like just knowing that there's a possibility of rain, whether checking weather, knowing what the climate is, how it could change, having, you know, having all the things that you need for weather. So if, even if it says sixty, the possibility of it going down to forty degrees of thirty degrees at night time is very likely and doing no knowing where you are, no way you are. Yeah, I know what you are. You know, because whether in New England is going to be completely different than whether in England. You know, and although they may be on a similar longitude line, it's like it's just not going to be the same. You know, me going to desert lands, he's bringing a lot of water. You know, simple things like that. Also, having professionals that, let's say, have nothing to do with the film industry but have everything to do with the environment, consulting with something with yeah, that know the particular for instance, if it's...

...too if it's props, you know, having professionals teach you and equip you with the knowledge of how they're used so that no accident happened. Right, they're having them on st or having them onset, so having you connectors, but it's like a technically Hollywood would have them onset and an independent scene, like if you can get them to volunteer right, then a lot of times we've had plenty of volunteers in simple credit was what they wanted, the credit on the film and to be like, yeah, that is he experience exactly see what it is, and so having professionals for anything that you may perceive that maybe a problem, having some professionals to be there to focus on those things. And the last one that we haven't touched upon yet is unforeseen illnesses or accidents, which is those are the worst as far as accidents and safety on a film set is concerned. Usually, typically it's the first ad that is responsible for safety on a set. It's not as far as Hollywood is concerned, and or rather union is concerned, it's not a union recognized position. It's just more of like a traditional thing that is like evolved over time. I yes, because the director is technically the boss of the set, that responsibility of ensuring everyone's safety is supposed to be on the director, but because the director is so crucial to the art, it would be the director's assistant, not necessarily the director's assistant, but the first aid, the first assistant director. So then it kind of trickles down to them and that's just kind of how it's evolved. Where why it's the first AIDS responsibility for safety been at the end of the day, in an independent film set, it doesn't work that way. It's like you can do one of two things, one of three things. I guess you can maintain that idea that the first stady is in charge of safety and keep that, but in independent film sets I think there's more of a community type approach to it and everyone, everyone is in charge of safety. And you know, and the DP, because they're considered like a boss, if you will, on set, but they're equally as responsible, for example, as a director, something that we like to do, that we did for a blood throne, and that well then, you know, I enjoy having this. This on set is like having an onset nurse or or like an onset person that specifically in charge of like safety. You're going to need that nowadays anyway, with Covid you know, like you're going to need to have someone that is like keeping temperature and all that stuff. You know, there's just to wind shore for the safety of everyone, but having someone specifically in charge of that is always I mean it's always great for a set. It's like you know, it's like, oh, they're looking out for our best interest. The you know, the eyes have been dotted, the t's have been crossed, but the DP is the one who calls the shots for the actual picture and he needs to be aware of potential dangers when it comes to the process of actually cap capturing the footage, right. I mean yeah, like, have you ever been in a situation where you're like, I know that it was you know, like you've got you have your gap for that rigged something and you just you're seeing it and you're capturing and you're like, I know that, you've say that this looks good, but to me I don't feel comfortable with it. Let's readdress it like. Well, I've had such I mean all the time you'll find operators, steadicam operators, people who are running high machines, cranes, things like that. These stuff is dangerous. It's and and and the sense that, for instance, a steadicam operator who's walking backwards is not knowing where he's going, he's no idea trip is act exactly, and so he's running with this thing. And so you you need an assistant, and maybe the second AC is involved with that, or another grip person is helping them by guiding them and dig through them exactly. You have to have people who know what...

...they're doing in their departments. It's kind of hard to just be like hey, you look, you have muscles, won't you just come over here and push this machine? So you need to know how to use this machine because this machine can cause Harnock, you know, massive crane knocking things over, and think it happens on big sets. It happens on little sets, cranes literally falling over. Yeah, so it's when you see these intense shots and films like in mission impossible fall out and you seeing like a car flying by or motorcycle him cut and all these different car shots and like that stuff is intense, preep planned. Yeah, it's been exercised. It is to the tea, first up the wise. Yeah, and so you can't just improvise that. And that, for crew, is not something you improvise. So you so it's at that point it becomes a shared responsibility. Yeah, it literally it's everyone is there looking up at each other knowing exactly what to do. It's a very you have to Coun shut down a whole production, and accident can shut down a whole production. Yeah, you know. I mean you brought up mission impossible and the last mission impossible, Tom crews broke his ankle. Jumping from one building to another and he finished the shot. He ran with a broken ankle. But that shut down production right for what? It was like three weeks, or they four weeks or something like that. It shut down production. At the end of the day, in an independent set, it could just shut down the film. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, for instance, like in that movie, mission impossible. They they know that this man is risking his life shot after shot after are and he's a professionally trained I mean, yeah, he's more stunt man than he is actor. Yeah, and so they have this stuff on schedule. If he hurts himself in this shot, you know what I mean, this is how much is gonna cost or this is what how much time we're going to lose. And because this is a this is you know, need good insurance. So that's another thing, right, insurance. Yes, protests have insurance. Yeah. So, yes, it happens, but when it's a crew behind the camera, unique they need to be professionals know what they're doing, because this isn't stuff where like it, you can improvide as like an actor and sure, you know absolutely. And the final one is studio executives decisions or, you know, private investors, you know, funders, when they take away that shot that you love. Tell me about a Joathan COLN. Well, speak, no, I'm just get this off your chest. And you know there is something that you know says everything that you want to say in that one shot. You know, and then or or you know then they just you know, I want to do this, I want to show this guy's face, I want to do that, and it's like okay, well, we could do that, but there's no need for it. This is saying everything and there's no better way to say something than to just have that that one take the says at all and says it best, because you know you're not cutting shooting, going here there, and it's just I'm just saying, there's always a time learn too because, like look, at the end of the day, like on a big set, on a big film set, when you've got a big budget, like a Hollywood set, for example, you know, studio film, if an exept comes in and pulls the rug out from underneath you as a DP, there's nothing you can do. He's got a roll with the punches right. It's like, hopefully the director goes to bat for you, but oftentimes maybe there's nothing they can do, unless it's like, you know, Emmanuel Besqui, Roger Deacon, where they've actually got some pole in the industry. They can say no, this is how it's going to happen, this is how we're going to do it, and the exacts will be like yes, whatever you need, whatever you need. You know that. That happens. Yeah, that happens. Look, it's the what Roger Decan is a very humble man, you know, but and he'll be the first one to say no, no, I'm just like you're just like, he's not, he's not like anyone. Maybe I write it and it's so he can say something in the exects will listen,...

...but, like you know, someone who doesn't have that kind of notoriety. At that point you can't do anything on the on an indie set it's a little different. On an INDIESA set is different because oftentimes the DP's probably one of the is probably the first or the second person that comes onto the set and is someone that has a lot of affording power and say in it, and oftentimes you can kind of push back on someone like that where they come in and they say we're going to take this shot away, you know, because you know I'm the funder and I want to do it this other way or whatever. And as a DP, you could be like, well, let's talk about it, let's talk about it. And that's, I think, when it's important for individuals just be professional, to become cool collective. Understand that, you know, sometimes they make certain choices that are not just purely selfish. And maybe, but maybe it's it has to do with the marketing, maybe it has to do with something that like that they're thinking about that, because you're in the story and engage and involves. So you know in the script, like you haven't considered that conversation. Yeah, talking these things out, and and I think you can fall in love with the story, where you can lose sight of, you know, what's important and what needs to be on there, or fall in love with like a shot, yeah, or something you or fall in love with the camera move or fall in love within a piece of equipment. And and that's where, again, you gotta Ego, has no Amigo. You know, you gotta let it go, because it's not going to prioritize what's important. Right. It's just US got to roll with the punches. You gotta learn to make like mad right on, lemons, right, h what's kind of there? I think it was great. There's a good conversation, I you know, and I think we've done a really good job. It just kind of like highlighting that relationship that the DP has with the script and all of the factors that can affect that relationship, for good and for bad, and just how to handle them. And I you know, hopefully you guys got some great insights, some great tips. You know, we've got stories for days. I'm sure that there are stories that we've got about funny ones, sad ones, scary ones. You know, we've had. We've had crew members when we love near and dear, flip their cars are because of you know, on set safety, think protocols and you know, and we're learning and I think sometimes you have to make the hard decisions for others because they're you know, they're so committed and passionate on something for the set or something outside. YEA, so it's for their safety. It's like you have to. Yeah, you have to. You have to love them more even than you know the product. Absolutely awesome, cool, all right, time for our creators. Tip Up the week. Would you got. You got a tip of the week? I do I don't have again, I don't have a any type of APP but I have a great tip, something that I usually do that helps me to become a better cinematographer. TP. So what I do is just find my notes here. You know what, I know it anyways, off top of my head. So when I do some film studies, these are some of the things that I do. So here's some tips that I do to become a better cinematographer. So the first thing, obviously, you should do is watch the movie silently, right, so shut the movies audio and watch the scene. So, if it's a scene inside a coffee shop, watch the whole scene, stop at every cut and when you stop at every cut, try to call out the type of shot it is, so it's a, you know, medium close up shot and it's, you know, pulling in in a dolly slowly or pulling back or whatever it is. And then you try to identify yourself. Yeah, identify where the lights are coming...

...from, what types of lights you think they are, the the wattage, the color or whether where they're located, identify the equipment being used. This is all just you just just guessing that's all as best as you can. It's like exact cool of hard knocks. Yeah, and born in that movie and just going for it. Yeah, it's film study as a DP and you're going in. You figure this was a cream shot. There's a crane in the show. Oh, this is just sticks, you know, just they're just sitting on tribarn. You know, you're trying to figure out what made that shot. After that, you know, you guess the camera, the light, the the the Lens. What Lens was being used? This is a fifty million meter lens. This at aperture. The shutter. What shutter stop? It's on. What? What? What? What is need? It's on exactly. I so figure all those stuff and you know that kind of stuff is with today's you know, Internet, you can verify. So, like, once you've done that, you can verify that and see, I'm getting better exactly, I'm learning, I'm discerning better, I'm understanding it better. That's really cool. So once you've done that, perse shot on the scene. At each shot you write down what did that shot tell me? So that particular shot said to me that the character is feeling lonely or distant or sad. Or whatever, and then you watch that whole scene and you see if what that what you felt and what you saw, what you thought it was telling you them is actually in that scene. When you turn on the audio and you hear the music in your you hear the dialog and you see the action, you will know what it's actually telling you and you see if you are right or wrong. And that you do, you know, you watch a movie, you do a day of that and you just, you know, seen by scene by scene and you can log it all up. I kind of do that sometimes. I log I did that with arrival recently. I logged it all up and I just saw, Oh, I love the way and you think of also techniques. You know, what do they how do they do this technique? Cut It in, do that, and you do your research on it, and the more you just do that, the more you'll start to learn the language, language of film exactly. Yeah, so that's my tip. That's kind of the things that I do when I study film to become a better TP. That's great. That's great, that that's intense. Yeah, so I always first gotta love it, you gotta Love Right. It's like first you watch it. So you can get, just watch it for story and enjoy it and then, well, I actually what I've done. What I've done is I've actually, instead of watching the whole movie first, I've actually not watched it at all. Done that first and really watch the movie out I can. Yeah, yeah, that's that can mean discipline. Well, it does take s extreme discipline at you. They'll come a time where you're watching a movie and all your focusing is on the shots. You know, as a director you'll notice, oh, you'll be so focused sometimes, if the movies phenomenal, you can't separate yourself from watching the shop. Yeah, you lose it all. You lose sometimes and actually be like, oh, that shot was so beautiful. You know, you kind of separate yourself from the story and you kind of want to know how they did it. And so, as a DP you'll always be doing that. And so so sometimes it's just it's fun to just go in there and just rewrite the shot list. That's awesome. Okay, cool. Now My creaer stipp of the week. I just recently bought a Mac book Bro Sixty yea, and but a tough there was. There was just a ton of factors that kind of got in the way of me just going and just shopping and just buying one. You know, apple today is what, the fifth of November? Yes, and so on the ten. Apparently apple is about to announce the you know, arm chest. Then you want silicon one arm chips on the on their Mac book pros and on...

...their Imax as well? No, maybe not, I'm actually yet but on their macbook pros and and well, anyway, they're already have it on that. Yeah, my phones. Yeah, it's already on the yeah, right. And but, like what I was trying to you know, I needed to do research in order to and, you know, find out is they're going to be. Is My software going to be compatible with the arm chips versus the Intel chips? You know, a lot of like really nerdy, really technical stuff that I personally just don't know because it's just out my world. Yeah, and I was talking to Hans and, you know, Hans referred me to an amazing, amazing youtube channel for any of you that are ever, you know, in consideration of buying a new machine and you just don't know, but you need to know. Is it going to drive with my software? You know, like the hardware pieces that I have. Is it going to work on this new computer? You know, is the speed, the power, the the the graphics card enough for, you know, for the programs that are running, whether it's Davinci resolved or find a car pro or premiere or avid whatever may be? This guy was instrumental for helping me make the choice. He's got so much content. He does so many tests, you know, what's different programs and doing, you know, render tests, timing tests, like all that stuff. His name the Prett. The the channel is Max tech and ax te C H Max tech and he tests to sit up. That's because just a whole bunch of stuff on there, and I mean like, I guess it's honest, informative tech videos for everyone, and that's cool because there's a lot of unboxing channels out there that don't really dive into the technical of the device and they're just kind of telling you with quality, and so it's good to know, well, I got this device, how do I use it? Is it compatible? You know, answer certain questions that you know, yeah, they probably isn't really there. There of their purpose. He's great. So that's because almost got a hundred million views on his channel. So He's it's informative and he breaks it down to Earth for us that, you know, speak Layman's language. It was great and it was it was informative and it was easy. It was easy buy for me because, like, I tend to overthink things. I'm like, well, what about this, and what about this doomsday scenario? What about that and one of like the in and he just layed it out there, which made it like that. It was a good experience, cool of it and everyone will thank you so very much for joining us for episode thirty one of the harvest. I hope that you guys enjoyed yourselves and if you have any questions about anything at all that we've discussed, you can reach me for short questions on twitter at x Garcia, at Jonathan harves. If you have any longer questions, you can reach us at Info at Mount Harvestcom or simply just my harvest at gmailcom. Thanks to our producer, Chelsea Cowley, and, you know, our contributor and information contributor, a Hans Padia, whom hopefully, if we can get the studio set up, we can get him also contributing as part of the the podcast. You know, whenever, especially, we have pertinent times where he can chime in with some information and things like that. So well, we'll get there eventually. And Yeah, Oh yeah, so tapped that subscribe button, like and Chaer please. Thank you, guys,.

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